/mu/ - Music (Temp full images)

3/10. Are you even trying?

yumm. 8/10

Shostakovich 8.5/10

11/10

>>54621573
are you kidding? 6/10 tops

>>54621609
Not even his music justifies that rating.

10/10

this is the worst fucking thread i've ever seen

>>54621610
i fux wit symphony no 5 really hard man

>>54621643
>Composer
are all rap fans this illiterate?

>>54621654
>implying you aren't just insecure about your sexuality

So they're making a Janine Jansen film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXH18DHs_Yw&feature=youtu.be

Here is another cutie. 9/10

4'33/5

I hope you all realize that sodomy is a sin.

Also, what's some other good orthodox vocal music? Chesnokov isn't cutting it anymore.

>>54621783
Try Berezovsky or Bortniansky

>>54621815
Thank you.

Any recs for where to start?

>>54621741
I never understood why someone drew this. In all the other portraits Schubert looks like a pudgy jew.

>>54621931
Try some of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zen_c32Assk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPw7uRh6hrM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hwELsSesvE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIxQ_B3Wpzg

Traditional Russian Orthodox;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77GebvPh8as
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH1s8PcDBEM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inxEai48IRA

Bulgarian Vocal music;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esvdSie_H4c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_gm0j1H1kc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dROdWDsKOhI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W72E3_MuJ0M

>ctrl "f"
>Mozart
>no results

Further proof

inf/10

>>54621988
Greatly appreciated brother, looks like I have my day cut out for me.

>>54621703
who you chatting bad at mate?????? Ill fuckin punch you into orbit you fat fuck bitch!!!!!!!!

>>54622118
There's something so uplifting and pure about a capella vocal music, especially when its written with beauty in mind.

great music for when you've had a shit day

69/10 (for the left one)

>>54621502
Seems kind of appropriate for this Lewd thread. Can somebody post shirtless Bartok?

>>54622241
is it Glass?

>>54622268
I thought I had it. but I dont

>>54622308
I think its young Boulez

>>54622143
Music is assuredly one of the greatest gifts the Lord has bestowed upon humanity.

Have a blessed day further!

>>54622424
yes

Tchaik looks a bit like Jonas so...

10/thread

>>54622611
yeah, he could be a good bottom

>>54621758
heh

Aha, you fags, I found it! And here it was indeed Mozarella all along

https://youtu.be/2oNnugi3yLU?t=23m3s

>>54622718
>you will never be as based as Stockhausen

10/10

Would totally threesome with Alma

>>54625869
forgot pic

Christ, he is gorgeous.

>>54625886

Another 10/10 cutie

18 year old Shosty.

8/10, real cutie.

>>54625946
wow, he's 18 there? What a cool fuccboi

10/10 dat beard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_rwtDlUXA

>>54626160
The 2nd movement is too beautiful.

>>54625946
More like SHOTAkovich amirite?

>>54621502
>expecting Bartok to bottom for you

Maybe when you write a string quartet as good as any of his

fuccboi/10

debussy/10

7/10.
Medieval composers are seriously underrated.

10/10 would cuddle

>>54625919

>>54621502
>somewhat related
Could anyone rec me some minimalist composers? Where to start?

>>54628046
man that nigga got a lot of boils in his old age. Maybe it was because he sold his soul.

>>54628074
Steve Reich, John Adams, Philip Glass if you like him, Terry Riley (kind of), Arvo Part if you want sacred minimalism. Julia Wolfe is also pretty based

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0NwiTHIhGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xON0AAYdVw&list=PLxHHFLjvTpfFKIlxWNCZvRWfEKa4FH2E1

>>54628103
Thank you, Anon.

>>54628103
wtf does "sacred minimalism" even mean? Does it mean its based on Plainchant?

>>54628193
just means music made with minimal material. sacred minimalism is pretty much just the genre for arvo part. highly spiritual, but often using as little material as possible;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNFL4Mz2ISY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8as_BN5h5YQ

Is there any OKAY streaming service for "classical" music? Spotify is a clusterfuck

>>54621976
It's probably not him anyways

>>54627301
>you will never stretch felix' tight boypussy
why even live

>>54628436
>felix'

that can't be right....

>>54628402
sdf, what do you think of Mozart's Requiem? It's killing me that I don't have your insight on this yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgyoIbuxiRQ
good shit

>>54628264
moar like clustercuck lel

>>54628585
I don't get it

>>54628492
Somewhat overrated due to biographical circumstances, though the portions that are actually by Mozart range from extremely refined examples of his church style (especially the Introitus and Kyrie fugue) to the boldly experimental (the chromatic sequences of the Confutatis). What's really frustrating about all completions of it, both historical and modern, is that none of them approaches the refinement of Mozart's orchestral writing (to be heard only in the Introitus). The Lacrimosa's first few bars are genial, but after that it doesn't go anywhere. The Domine Jesu again has more Mozart substance.

Taken as a whole it's patchy, and while I appreciate some parts of it greatly I don't think I'd recommend it to anyone trying to get into Mozart, because it doesn't really showcase what most of his music is all about.

>>54628264
Spotify is great, so long as you know what you're looking for. Lots of very interesting small releases.

any cool compositions with irregular time signatures?

I think everything I heard was either 4/4, 3/8 or 3/4.

>>54628763
You can't hear time signatures.

>>54628795
huh?

>>54628822
Time signature is a feature of notation only, and may or may not correspond to meter (which you can actually hear). There's plenty of instances in Mozart where notated time signature does not correspond to meter (a common practice in the 18th century, a famous example would be K550, I), as well as moments when a meter that corresponds to the time signature is compressed or extended beyond the bar lines.

Oh hey, Joan Didion's weird russian cousin

8/10

>>54628859
buy you CAN tell if a song is in 4/4 or 3/4 don't you?

>>54628859
In the classical style, metric irregularities and irregular groupings are often achieved through the addition or deletion of upbeats (of various lengths), phrase overlapping, ambiguous groupings, male and female endings - stuff that isn't expressed in time signatures.

>>54628893
No. You can deduce a conventional or obvious way to notate the meter (to make it easily readable), especially in conjunction with the tempo marking, but the decision between simple/compound and adjacent note values for the pulse is always arbitrary to a degree. Listen to this, and tell me how you would notate the meter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Td56U3hzE

>>54628961
Don't look at the image before you've listened.

RIP Beethoven

Happy birthday Boulez

>>54628961
>>54628975
I need to go now but i'll come later if the thread is still up to answer your question

>>54628984
exclusive picture from his ongoing birthday party

If you've ever doubted the fact that guitarists cannot into polyphony then Berlioz' entire oeuvre stands as monumental testament to that fact

>people still doubt that Mozart was the greatest 18th century master of polyphony and counterpoint after JS Bach, and unrivaled in the 19th century in those regards

>>54628961
I won't comment on the meter, but will just mention how fucking good Quatuor Mosaiques is.

I picked it as them straight away.

>>54629066
Albrechtsberger

>>54629108
>wrote more fugues than everyone else /= master of polyphony

>>54629159
isn't that sechter

>>54629175
Thank you for proving my point.

>>54629244
nope, i was just informing you that you had your irrelevant 19th century austrian composers mixed up :^)

>people still believe that Mozart's fugues were derivative of Bach, when in fact Mozart likely abandoned countless attempts because they didn't seem original enough
While this fugue is easily on par with the WTC's fugues in terms of motivic economy and exploitation of "learned" contrapuntal techniques, its harmonic and rhythmic idiom is completely unlike that of JS Bach: The accented diatonic dissonances that decorate the countersubject (which is a decorated version of the main subject), which are exaggerated into abrupt chromaticism in bar 9, halving the basic pulse and phrase structure - a sudden contrast that is has no equal in Bach's WTC fugues (only Contrapunctus 11 comes to mind). Throughout augmentation and diminution are used to modulate pulse and phrase structure first and foremost, i.e. using an old device to introduce the flexibility of the classical style into the genre of the fugue.

I really should learn this fugue, even though I'll never be as good as Feinberg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCXATs66jJA#t=5m38s

>>54629280
or 18th in the case of albrechsberger w/e

ayyy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Nilsson#Style_and_technique

What are the best 19th century fugues anyways?

Contenders off the top of my head: Beethoven, Brahms, Mendelssohn, Verdi, Schumann, Wagner, Tchaikovsky, Schubert, Reicha, Franck, Bruckner

A more complete list: http://www.kunstderfuge.com/800.htm

So, what are your personal favorites? I'd probably pick Beethoven's Diabelli and Hammerklavier fugue (the finale, not the development of the first movement), Verdi's Libera me fugue, Mendelssohn's E minor fugue and Brahms' Mein Jesu der du mich chorale fugue.

>>54629282
There has to be something in that fugue that make me extremely uneasy every time I listen to it. And it's not just the density of the dissonances alone since the A minor fugue from book 1 is also choke full of dissonance but I never get nauseous while listening to it.

>>54629421
I really like the fugue from the third movement of Brahms Requiem, the one with the pedal point

idk if it's the 'best' though

>>54629421
Tchaikovsky is just hilarious when he tries to write proper contrapuntal music

>>54629421
Brahms - Warum ist das Licht gegeben:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D47_5t00SqY

Beethoven - Diabelli Variations fugue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGkTm_ztABo

Beethoven - Hammerklavier fugue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShVlZZ2Wo2w#t=32m25s

Verdi - Libera me fugue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL3bvaL2s-0

Mendelssohn - Fugue in E minor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ahTuRzV6CI#t=2m9s

Brahms - Mein Jesu der du mich
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc-NbbqTxLk

>>54629442
It has something irreverent, playful, almost farcial about it, a kind of expressive world that is entirely alien to Bach's fugues and the genre in general (exception: that Diabelli fugue). That's part of the reason why I like it so much. That and the somewhat ruthless, but motivically legitimated use of dissonance always reminds me of 20th century polyphonic music, especially Hindemith and Shostakovich.

Part of the reason why I admire Mozart is the fact that he more consistently than anyone else indulges in popular devices that border on the kitschy and sentimental, without ever crossing over into that territory by virtue of carefully placed subversive dark, unsettling spots. Consider the c-b-g#-f appoggiatura chord (a minor mixed with its own applied dominant diminished seventh chord, like Beethoven's terror fanfare in the 9th) in the context of this quasi-religious, simple variation-sonata movement.

>>54629104
Easy, there's few historicist quartets who can actually intone properly.

Though I absolutely agree, their aesthetic combines Vegh's modernism and Harnoncourt's expressive vision of authenticity.

>>54629610
Whoops, forgot the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnseuThT9Rg

Listen to it from the start, you can't possibly miss the brutal dissonance amidst all that loveliness.

>>54629610
I really wonder how they conceived of those chords in that day. As chords by supposition? As contrapuntal dissonances relating to an entire chord? As fundamental bass formulas with a set resolution (seems unlikely in the light of chaotic chords like eb-g#-b-g in K550)?

you people need to stop underrating mozart and start listening to some boulez it's his birthday (unless you're listening to something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvZ6BlCYjzQ )

>>54627280
Yeah!

>>54629950
I love the Notations so much, probably my favorite orchestral output by him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZJuqLQ9V6I

The mix of his old, simpler twelve-tone style and the super-advanced, colorful, occasionally even Wagnerian orchestration is just so amazing

>>54630001
i'm listening to a concert that has those currently, along with visage nuptial (also really good). unsure about what's my favorite orchestral music though, notation ranks highly but i've been taken by éclat/multiples lately and then there's dérive II and his other early cantata 'le soleil des eaux' (with a great text by rené char).

>>54630085
>then there's dérive II and his other early cantata 'le soleil des eaux' (with a great text by rené char).
And a GOAT recording by Roger Desormière

>When one polemical outburst bit back in the febrile atmosphere of post-September 11, three Swiss policemen raided Boulez’s Basle hotel room to confiscate his passport. Swiss police files had dredged up his notorious comments about wanting to blow up opera houses and profuse apologies were subsequently issued.
oh man why haven't i heard this one before

lets speculate on the identity of the guy who contacted the police, i bet it was dutilleux

RIP thread

>>54631283
everyones busy listening to boulez

>>54631410
y-yeah!!!

>>54629066
>greatest after Bach

good, then there's no reason to listen to him when Bach is superior.

btw, who is the greatest of all time and why is it Bach?

>>54632698
yes

>>54629610
>I admire Mozart

Why are fifth symphonies so good?

Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Shostakovich, Sibelius...

>>54633168
number magic

Recommend me some solo piano pieces.

>>54633508
boulez' 12 notations

>>54633591
Thanks.
I'm still a pleb and have only listened to what people would deprecatingly call "pretty" classical so far so this is pretty neat.

>>54633168

Its because they are great composers. These are not really their finest works. At least not in my opinion.

>Rebecca Miller leads the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment in fearless performances (at A=415, making the keys noted play at a half-tone lower than indicated), using everything from no vibrato to a throbbing warmth in middle movements

when will h.i.p. die please?

so did anyone see that bbc docu last week saying that bach's compositions might all have been ghostwritten by his wife?

thoughts?

>>54634613
link btw http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04t91gf/written-by-mrs-bach

>>54634632
>>54634613
didn't see it but i read ross' rebuttal sometime last year. pretty much on the same level as the beethoven is black theory (not to be taken seriously but a+ /pol/ trolling material)

>>54634632
>BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only.

10/10

>>54633508
Scriabin's Sonatas
Chopin's Nocturnes
Szymanowski's Studies

>>54634795
but beethoven was black, anon

>>54634925
a black muslim

>>54621758
would pick mushrooms with.

10/10

Look at this bastard.

http://soundcheck.wnyc.org/story/10-great-works-20th-century-pierre-boulezs-90th-birthday/

>naming one of his own work
aww yeah, vintage boulez

Cute boy.
Damn..

>>54635193
mai husbando

What's wrong with Schumann? Why don't people play him often /classical/?

>>54635525
back off
>>54635562
because herbert grönemeyer played him (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085568/) and now no one can take him serious anymore

>>54635562
nothing. for solo piano music he's easily my favorite composer.

10/10, very handsome man.

At what age did you realize Brahms is the greatest composer ever to live?

>>54636373
Not there yet. It took me awhile to really appreciate his music, now I love it. Mozart will always remain GOAT for me, I think.

>>54629610
>Part of the reason why I admire Mozart is the fact that he more consistently than anyone else indulges in popular devices that border on the kitschy and sentimental, without ever crossing over into that territory by virtue of carefully placed subversive dark, unsettling spots

But Mahler

>>54635562
>why don't people play him often
>schumann
wat

>>54635562
>>54637170
Obviously he meant Georg Schumann.

>>54637249
is he related to boris tchaikovsky

>mfw people on this board exclusively listen to pleb shit
call me when you can into the past fifty years faggots

>>54637626
funny considering you posted right beneath one of the bigger past fifty years fags these threads have to offer

what's the best modern classical

>>54637913
schoenberg prolly

and boulez too cos its his birthday >>54629051

hope you guys are basking in boulez like required, listening to rituel in memoriam Bruno Maderna (not his best work, bet he was jealous that Maderna was the superior conductor)

OK, it's great that you Memezart sackriders respect his skill but for your own sakes expand your horizons beyond this basic bitch fixation. Get out of this /mu/ mindset where you think you can rate music by its relative quality. It's art, not music that's produced as a product. Different qualities are good for different reasons, there is no single ideal quality of art music therefore no single composer can be the best always. The meme has served its purpose, now we don't have to go full RYM and out-obscure each other, it's fine to gravitate towards the landmarks. We should all become more like Taxes now and become omnivorous.

>>54637670
>he dislikes contemporary composition

>>54638029
>We should all become more like Taxes
We can't type in comic sans here.

>>54638040
>implying never implied implications

>>54638053
my favorite physics presentation meme

>>54637125
Mahler crossed that border many times.

>>54638098
classical music related fact: fabiola gianotti had to decide between a piano and a physics career when she came of age. apparently she chose right (that or we've missed on a GOAT-tier pianist)

>>54625946
got a real john lennon vibe going on there, very strange

>>54635214
seriously a 100% based list. this should be given to any people asking for 20th century classical.

>>54637626
i wish we'd see more brian ferneyhough memes on deviant art

>>54638366
biased towards early 20th century (and although I don't like minimalism, i'm not as vehemently opposed to it as he is, it really should be there somewhere) but they're all great works, no doubt about it

>>54638458
Nah, minimalism isn't even part of art music. It's in the same vein as film soundtracks.

>>54638550
yeah that's kind of what he's implying when he calls is 'supermarket music' or something. i think he's a bit wrong on that though, there's a really strong modernist ethos in those earlyish works of reich, say. it's radical art, a very thorough rethinking of what music can or should try to accomplish.

some people are a bit too obsessed by the harmonic side of music, and they equate the 'tonal center' in minimalist music with backward thinking philosophy and I don't think it's an accurate way of looking at those composers.

>>54638689
i haven't heard that much criticism on minimalism from boulez though, maybe he's got a different take on why he doesn't like it. Carter's reasons for dismissing it, I always felt a bit weird though. the "repetition is a hallmark of 19th century music because it represents the sounds that people would hear daily, with the military marches and the periodic sound of horse hooves" (paraphrasing, i'd have to find the exact quote) seems very contrived as an explanation for repetition in earlier music.

there's a much better explanation in that you needed repetition because no one had the possibility to hear a work being performed 50-100 times in those days. since expectation is a big part of musical appreciation, to repeat a theme a few times in a work would allow the listener to start expecting its re-apparition later in the work, which heightens its effect.

expectation isn't the only aspect of music appreciation and I think that for minimalist music fans, it really isn't the most important one. something about the drone and the trance-like atmosphere those works create I think (although personally i've rarely been able to reach that)

>>54638689
Did anyone after Reich push boundaries with minimalism? Reich's inventions were pretty much dead ends since they were 100% academic and convey no other meaning. All that phasing stuff with tapes, clapping, pendulums. It's maybe a mistake to include him in the genre since minimalism is understood as degenerate new compositions for the pops orchestra audience.

>>54638932
Arnie said it best as music being a conflict between expecting both repetition and change.

Also, I haven't seen the source of this quote so I'm not certain if it's legit, but he complained about music becoming noise to everyone which seems to be the explicit purpose of minimalism. It's doesn't help the case when dudes like Philip Glass do visuals with the music.

>>54638932
>>54638689

Interesting points.

Yeah, a lot of people I've spoken to about minimalism focus on that 'trance-like' state stuff, which I can't say is what I hear in minimalism (although I still do enjoy most of it)

>>54639350

Do many orchestras perform minimalistic stuff these days though? I've performed two pieces by Part, Cantus in Memoriam Benjamin Britten and Wenn Bach Bienen gezüchtet hätte (although the latter isn't really minimalist Part). I've sung one piece by him (Bogoroditse Djevo, again not very typical) and one piece by Tavener (Mother of God, Here I Stand).

It just doesn't seem like music which orchestras play much. Maybe choirs sing it more often, but still it's not really in mainstream performance, however much it may be listened to

>With his own music driven by change and diversity, what is his view of the popular trend of minimalism? "It's death," says Carter. "If you write one bar and then repeat it over again, the music ceases to have anything to do with the composer, from my point of view, anyway. It means a person's stopped living. It doesn't have anything to do with music.
>"Well, it obviously does, because some people think it's very good. But I don't understand that. I think that one of the big problems we live with is that that kind of repetition is everywhere, in advertising, in public address systems, and in politicians always saying the same thing. We live in a minimalist world, I feel. That's what I think. Those other people can think what they think."
and from another article
>Much of Mr. Carter’s music was difficult to play, difficult to listen to and, judging by the slow pace of Mr. Carter’s output, difficult to write. Yet it also embodied a certain simplicity. As Mr. Carter aged, he emphasized the connections between his music and the world around it. He said that he sought to represent the pace of the 20th century: the acceleration and deceleration of an airplane rather than the regular beats, and horses’ hooves, of 18th- and 19th-century music.

>>54638458
one thing i don't like about boulez is that he ignores shosty. and yes, i agree about the bias towards early 20th century. as an intro, it's pretty good. for late(r) 20th century, i'd say Carter - concerto for orchestra, maybe ferneyhough's la terre est un homme, alexander goehr's deux etudes for orchestra, salmanov's symphony no. 3, tristan murail's gondwana, per norgård's symphony no. 2, messiaen's turangalila symphony (lol brothel music),
scelsi's Quattro Pezzi per Orchestra, feldman's orchestra, and reich's four sections (for minimalism).

Idk man, it seems like orchestral music has really taken a dip in the the later 20th/21st century. not in terms of quality, but definitely in terms of output. also, other definitions and delineations of "orchestral" music make it harder to define an orchestral piece. like is turangalila a symphony or double concerto? is scelsi's quattro pezzi a chamber piece (26 people) or an orchestra? it's just much harder to define form in the 20th century and make categories based on instrumentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3JEGuUd6SI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxbpF_aW4vU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke008JBWmEE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z34yIzTxAes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4EIx0XzPzg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psUmxWZUP0c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylSXGHa9isk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I0QIRXcbZ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W31Aa1adV3k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAFC5Kz-VQg

honorable mention (for chamber orchestra):
birtwistle's Tragoedia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KUoKyjy6u8

>>54638932
>something about the drone and the trance-like atmosphere those works create I think (although personally i've rarely been able to reach that)

I've always found you can get the same thing just as well from Indian classical, Persian classical, traditional central Asian music, music from North Africa etc. I mean Steve Reich claims to be influenced by Hindustani ragas and free jazz but I rarely find his music as compelling as either.

>>54639509
Thank G-d the airplane meme is dead now.

>>54639438
>Wenn Bach Bienen gezüchtet hätte
lmao, gotta give this a listen

What's the ideal balance between composers being absolutely mortified of seeming cliche or going full hack and doing 555 compositions of the same genre+instrument? (and why was it the impressionist days?)

>>54639632
good picks, i particularly like la terre est un homme although apparently it's always extremely awfully played (if i recall it correctly it's a poor performance of that work that led irvine arditti to eventually leave orchestral music and start doing chamber music). ferneyhough being ferneyhough, maybe it wasn't originally meant to be perfectly played to begin with, idk.

and yes on boulez and shostakovich, he's still unapologetic. "2nd or third pressing of mahler", "better known because of his life than because of his music" (again paraphrasing), i think he reiterated those less than 10 years ago.

yeah well i'm not as harsh towards shostakovich as he is. not always the biggest fan of his music but I think it's pretty clear that as a composer he bled talent, and that he was kind of forced or allowed himself to be forced in this ultra ironic corner by authorities. what I consider to be his best works are almost all in the chamber music realm though, which might not be boulez' no. 1 type of ensembles

>>54639960
>the impressionist days
i like when i can listen to a composer evolve in his way to write for a specific ensemble/instrument/form. you kind of have this (but not really) for solo piano with debussy and his two books of preludes (1909-1913). elsewhere though, i'm not sure why you'd consider them to be balanced when they were among the first (particularly debussy again, in his late chamber music) to try more peculiar ensemble combinations.

someone like beethoven would be closer to my ideal, although his masterpieces are a bit too concentrated in three forms/ensembles imo (piano sonatas / symphonies / string quartets). Maybe rihm is a better example.

>>54639988
there is some flexibility in the ultra-complex pieces in terms of playability, but i think that generally, ferneyhough and carter's pieces are no where near played to their full potential. maybe in 10-25 years, we shall see orchestras playing extremely accurate ferneyhough and carter and struggling with whatever new super ultra master complexity pieces that are being composed.

>>54635214
>And then you have an opera like Moses und Aron, which should be in the repertoire of all of our houses.
Agreed.

>>54640426
Hey SDF what are some good (preferably English) books on classical music?
Specifically on Mozart's messing with sonata form
I already have Rosen's The Classical Style, haven't gone too deep into it yet though, so I don't know if it talks about Mozart his use of sonata form.

>>54640315
ferneyhough's different from carter in that he sometimes willfully writes unplayable music because he's trying to reach for this type of sound that you get from someone struggling (and failing) to get everything right, this special type of musician anxiety.

carter however had this kind of (maybe naive) optimism that in the future, both his performers and his audience would get used to his music, and that it would result in massively superior performances and much greater appreciation from the public. i'm no musician but as far as I understand it the challenges in playing carter's music are a bit different than the challenges in playing new complexity music. Carter's music is overwhelmingly complex contrapuntally, the biggest challenge seems to be to reach this balance between the individuality of the different voices and the overall effect intended. Meanwhile new complexity is trying to reach for sounds, moods, atmosphere with this arcane notation of theirs. i remember hearing arditti say that carter's expectation for their sound was completely different from what ferneyhough wanted. Carter: he wants a viennese sound while ferneybro would probably rather be caught dead than caught asking for something like this.

Gonna note that Carter's been partly vindicated in this expecations, his music has somehow managed to stay kind of popular throughout his later years and still continues to interest new musicians after his death. don't think he'll ever be a mainstay but I also don't think he'll ever be forgotten as long as classical music continues to be a thing

I would like to learn more about Japanese composers. Future game plan for another OP could be Weeaboo Edition with a picture of an anime girl. It will attract life sustaining trolling so we can survive having an obscure topic that isn't about Mozart for a change. The tricky part is how do we discuss something no one knows anything about? All I'm thinking of is scouring Wikipedia for an article about it then posting Youtube links.

>>54641837
there's an hosokawa fan around and i'm becoming one myself. all my attempts to get excited about takemitsu have been failures though - interesting but unconvinced

>>54641932
There is 1 anon who seems to be knowledgeable. Other than that there's just poly. Hopefully there's some resource to consult out there on the 'net so we won't need to rely on that.

>>54642097
the hosokawa fan i saw yesterday was also anti-chopin which i find unacceptable

>>54640888
>Specifically on Mozart's messing with sonata form
Hepokoski/Darcy - Elements of Sonata Theory: Norms, Types and Deformations in the Late 18th Century Sonata

It falls short of the goal it sets for itself (being a comprehensive sonata theory), but it is two great Mozart monographies in one, pretty much. Quirky book, but full of insightful descriptions of remarkable moments in (Mozart's) music. If you like Rosen, check out Tovey (Rosen's main influence).

10/10. Would cuddle and listen to Schumann, Chopin, and Chabrier with

>>54641932
>>54642160
>>54642097

I recommended you the Diotima recording yesterday so I assume you're referring to me. That's all the Hosokawa I know, though, which would be the extent of my knowledge on Japanese composers.

Chopin hater guy was someone else.

>>54642785
Does the sonata form even exist? Seems as though it's an umbrella term used for any movement of music that does not have its origin in dance suites. Every sonata seems to diverge from its "form" as described by theory.

rec me best recording of mahler's symphonies
no firetruck meme please

>>54621758
would marry

>>54626160
would fuck

>>54628020
wood kill

>>54644378
nvm, I like abbado, I'll get that

>>54641837
>>54642160
I mention Hosokawa now and then and I like Chopin just fine.

Two other major contemporary Japanese figures are Misato Mochizuki and Dai Fujikura

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj7BixghbI0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LimYhhgrDoE

I recommend looking at this list for 20th century composers
http://www.naxos.com/series/japanese_classics.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ePOeQTXMQ

>>54635177
I don't know why I laughed so much.

Are you guys religious, and in particular Christian?

You can't understand most of the music you feign to love if you don't know and love God. Sorry, poseurs.

>>54635562
Nothing, he's one of the greatest songwriters ever, and I prefer him to Chopin

>>54636373
Eww

>>54645075
I'm devoutly Buddhist and it turns out it's even better, not that you'd have any idea. I am literally at one with the music.

>>54645208
I was 15 once.

>>54645075
>i love this music because i love god
good copout

>>54645254
Time doesn't exist tho

>>54645305
>length doesn't exist tho

>>54645301
I indicated no causal relationship there.

>>54645305
True. Neither does music, therefore.

>>54645075
I'm agnostic but interested in religious history and theology. 'Feign to love' is putting it strongly, why do you think love of God is necessary?

>>54642785
bro, i loved that Andreas Staier recording of some of Mozart's Piano Concerti (9, 17-19), what other recordings do you like? ive never really listened to Mozart's piano works until now.

>>54645934
(not SDF)
based Annie Fischer, Clara Haskil, Solomon, Edwin Fischer, Robert Casadesus, Geza Anda

Valery Primakov has my favourite recent recordings, after 3 volumes the series is now with an Armenian pianist, Marianna Shirinyan

Does anyone have any gif/webms of Yuja Wang

>>54646240
anything not ancient but still good?

>>54646280
most of those are not ancient

>>54646438
>A.Fischer - Born 1914
>C.Haskil - Born 1895
>Solomon - Born 1902
>E.Fischer - Born 1886
>R. Casadesus - Born 1899
>Geza Anda - Born 1920

Anda is the only one that can't be considered meme-tier, the rest? no thanks.

>>54646562
>born in 1915ish
>meme tier
lel have fun missing out on richter

DUDE SHEEP LOL

>>54646280
That's why I named Primakov. Arthur Schoonderwoerd has interesting recordings on fortepiano, or try Viviana Sofronitsky's (also on fortepiano). I pay more attention to archival releases of the concertos than new recordings.

>>54646562
It's idiotic to cut yourself off from great performances on the basis of age.

>>54646562
if you want to rule performers out on that basis, then there's no point suggesting anything

Golden age pianists? More like golden shower penises, 'cause they piss all over the graves of composers just to mark their scent on great achievements.

>>54647071
sick burn bro

>>54641932
how do you feel about Messiaen then?

>>54647071
pss pss pss

hosokawa is based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji0gxsRp71M
takemitsu is also based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5LIsjlxDWE
yoshimatsu is based as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImpwYx_28oo

>>54647461
qt 10/10

>>54647071
Most composers of pre 1850 would probably have found it amusing how strictly modern pianists adhere to their scores.

>>54647654
Let's just ask Mozart next time he posts in one of these threads. He usually says something along the lines of his music being the hardest to play because a single mistake or clumsy dynamic spoils the precision of the whole thing.

>>54647461
Richter on Messiaen
>I find him interesting,especially when played by Yvonne Loriod. The works of his I've heard often start magnificently, but their initial promise is never realized, and you get these sugar-water climaxes that I can't stand. Splendid ideas, then suddenly Gershwin, cloying sweetness!

>>54647631
He looks a lot like Gilles Deleuze here

>>54647817
Sviatoslav Richter?

>>54647798
Mozart's autism intensifies

What's the best way to find and listen to music for free?

>>54648121
youtube

>>54639819

It's ok tbh. Played the clarinet part which was pretty interesting, then it does that bit of the B minor Mass at the end. More bearable than 'muh tubular bell' which is the entirety of Cantus in Memoriam (I don't even know what the fuck sort of relationship Part had with Britten)

>>54646681

Great meme message

>>54647071

saved for future use

Who is the meme performer/conductor that you enjoy the most?

>>54648676

Always had a soft spot for Gould.

>>54648676
yo-yo man

>>54621502
.

mai waifu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_JDzIpuELE

There used to be a similarly animated video of her string quartet, but it seems to have been taken off of youtube.

>>54650263
http://www.clickhole.com/splitpic/texts-you-send-your-20s-vs-texts-you-send-your-clo-2163

10/10

3/10

>>54648676
I dont know about meme, but I really like András Schiff

Gould reaction for future usage

>>54652982

might want to check that one again champ

>>54646931
why? because all you listen to are meme conductors and performers?

thanks for saving me the trouble.

>tfw the 4th tone magnificat is transposed up a fifth and stated in long notes and the final phrase descends slowly through a diminished triad

is tchaikovsky firetruckcore?

>mfw all these threads discuss are pre-modern hacks
>mfw all of this tonality
>mfw these threads will never get over bourgeois aestethics

>tfw I just spent $120 on a CD of an obscure opera by a seldom known french opera composer

>>54655001
yes
>>54655598
yes
>>54656575
(not true, by the way)
>>54656583
what is it

>>54656819
Étienne Méhul's La Légende de Joseph en Egypte

>>54656943
yup, never heard of that one

>>54656960
there's only been one complete recording of it, there's one other that only has highlights of sections from two separate performances

French Romantic Opera is GOAT, and criminally underrated vs. the trash-filled italian opera of the time.

>>54644455
>wood kill chopin

??????????????????????

>tfw you weren't forced to take violin lessons as a 3 year old

fuck u mum

>>54658646
I know that feel, but at least we aren't asians.

>>54657002

It's not that GOAT tbh.

Got to love that late-romantic Mendelssohn.

>>54661226
>what took him so long

>>54661226
>>54661289
>metalsucks.net

so yeah who's your favorite rameau keyboardist

And here I am thinking you fags were rating the composers on merit.

>>54663006
ill rate on whatever i want

>>54662324
ranking right now goes like

meyer > gilbert > hewitt >ross

>>54663045
but i really gotta note how good this music is, easily as good as scarlatti

>tfw not sure whether or not to apply to a baroque ensemble for young performers

On the one hand, I adore baroque music but I'm pretty bad at doing runs. But they are performing Handel's Dixit Dominus, so we'll see

>>54663233
dunno about how hard it is to perform but that's a pretty nice work there

>>54663335

It's not that difficult. Most baroque stuff is fairly easy so long as you have a vague understanding of how fugues work and have control of the techniques.

However I think my timetable doesn't permit me taking part. Pity, would have been able to work with John Butt (of Dunedin Consort fame). Always next year though

Which Mahler symphony should I listen to tonight?

>>54664728
Number six

>>54664728

4

>>54664728

Listen to Bruckner instead

Which composer had the hottest wife or daughter?

>>54665283
nono/schoenberg

>>54665283

Always thought Nuria was quite qt in certain pictures

>>54665436
Was he a manlet? He's dressed like a tramp.

>>54665483

toppest lel

>>54665515
At last I truly see. So that's why he destroyed the future of music.

>>54665515
deleting my schoenberg folder right this second

>>54663045
>missing the fastest harpsichordists in the land

>>54665561
Same. Let's listen to some Rach to make up for this.

>>54665586
i only hate manlets, not myself

what is the worst interpretation of a piece ever?

>>54665685
inb4 Glenn

>>54665685
live pogo in that scriabin 4th

worse than celi worse than gould worse than cobra worse than bachscholar

>>54665955
for non professional performances there's also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUiHBjQku0o

>>54662324
>>54663045
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgKTS_gq9lc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZCeP3OpcSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSmmfCwb6Ys

>>54666058
>verlet
pls no

>>54666015
I had to close the video as quickly as possible but as soon as I tried to move I realized I was petrified with terror. I couldn't even blink until it ended.

>>54666015

>SHOW-PAAAAAN
>SHER-TZO

America pls

>>54655001
I've been using this one long before I knew even the most basic music theory.

>>54665515
>destroyed music because he was such a manlet

More like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnlVlo2TVjQ#t=860

>>54666590
Go to your nearest Elementary School and listen to the first year orchestra warm up.

>>54629421
Can you give example of a Wagner fugue? Google isn't showing up anything relevant.

>>54629421

>forgetting Reger, the meme-fugue master of the period

I've got a soft spot for Verdi's fugues in the requiem (the Sanctus and Libera Me in particular).

The final bit of the Gloria in Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is another firm favourite. Brahms' Prelude and Fugue in G Minor is a great organ work, so I guess that fugue gets a look in.

y'all mp3tag felix mendelssohn or felix mendelssohn-bartholdy?
joseph haydn or franz joseph haydn?

>>54667392
dunno how the franz craze started because he never used that name himself

i use felix mendelssohn and joseph haydn

>>54667445
>>54667392

>>54667445
although here it seems like mendy signed with bartholdy

so yeah

>>54667476
>>54667524
i'll just go with the short versions

>>54667624

>not having Johannes Chrysostomus Wolfgangus Theophilus Mozart for every one of his compositions

>>54668086
I'm glad Chrysostomus hasn't survived as name

>>54668143

I'll bring it back

>>54656583
Its your duty to upload in flac with high definition booklet, Gentleman.

save bump

>>54671263
just make a new one, it's almost 300

>>54672314
but i'm shy

Is Verdi really worth it

got ahold of Netrebko's La Traviata recording but idk

>>54672357
me too. that's i won't make it. someone mentioned a japanese composer edition. might be better than rating fuckability of dead dudes

>>54666165
>tfw i pronounce these wrong
please explain how to explain chopin and concerto

>>54672386
well there's othello and the requiem and that string quartet

>>54672386
Puccini first.

>>54672405
yeah the Requiem and String Quartet are nice but I've not been a pre-Wagner opera person
>>54672408
ew

>>54672402
sho-pan, con-cher-tow

>>54665685
zubin mehta
georg solti
barbirolli

>>54672422
have you actually heard anything by puccini?

la boheme & fanciualla del west is among the bes opera has to offer.

>>54672422
you can be like me and mostly ignore it

>>54672476
but then people call me ignorant
>>54672465
>pure opera composers
ew

>>54672505
i'd rather be ignorant than suffer through bel canto stuff :^)

>>54672563
amen to that
aight I'll just ignore that shit

where do i know the main theme from mendelssohn's violin concerto from

>>54672575
probably some cheesy garbage considering the composition itself

>>54672392
I'm here, I'll get around to it in a few

>>54672505
>>pure opera composers
>ew

Some of them were pretty lightweight but Rossini, Bellini, Donizetti, Verdi and Wagner all achieved what they did because they wrote a lot of opera.

>>54672640
But see, the only two of those that aren't shit are Verdi and Wagner, who both wrote great works out of opera

>>54672665
what's the great non-operatic work of wagner, verklärte nacht?

>>54672741
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=891JUSQplzU

symphony in C is cool too

>>54672741
>wagner
>verklärte nacht
e-explain

Basically if you specialize in opera then chances are you aren't worth paying attention to.

But really it's the same as any genre.

Nobody gives a shit about Bottesini other than Bass players.

>>54672904
although now I'm curious about similar shit composers.

every instrument has them more or less. the throwaway people that, if not for the instrument's performers, they would have been thrown away years ago

Creston to some extent for Sax, maybe Stamitz for clarinet, but so many instruments yet to consider...

>>54672765
always thought that was made with the opera in mind, seems like ive been fooled by this crafty anti-jew
>>54672890
just a play on early-schoenberg's main influences
>>54672904
>Basically if you specialize in opera then chances are you aren't worth paying attention to.
bit harsh, but yeah
>But really it's the same as any genre.
agreed

>>54672993
maybe hindemith for the viola

>>54673002
>always thought that was made with the opera in mind, seems like ive been fooled by this crafty anti-jew
he's a sneaky bugger, makes you think it's Ring related so you can have an inflated perception of it

but surprisingly it holds up very well
>>54673057
perhaps but he was kinda a whore for everything
but viola in particular yeah

>>54673020

Warning: new thread approaching!!