/mu/ - Music (Temp full images)

>>53893585
>Against Me
>female musician

:^)

>>53893585
>And why are there generally less female musicians than male ones?

why does it matter?

Here's the actual lineup, for those interested

>>53893711
I guess there's this assumption that because a field is male-dominated, it MUST be because of sexism.
Has that claim been proven?
If not, what is the real cause?

Do women take the MRA thing seriously? Like do they think it's trying to be an actual movement and an actual threat?

Also LOL at the thought of Godspeed playing Reading

>>53893711
you're telling me a lot of these >>53893745 acts can't be replaced by better acts that also happen to feature a female musician? seriously that main stage is embarrassingly terrible

>female
>musicians

>female
>worth mentioning musicians

>>53893846
The quality of the music isn't really relevant. I could cherry pick a bunch of all-male bands that would easily beat that lineup.
If anything, its a cheap tactic to make an all-female lineup look more appealing

>>53893846
if the line up is so shit then why do you care if there aren't women shoehorned in there?

>>53893893
because they could have a better line up and feature more females, this way everyone is happy

>no Julie Ruin
Way to skip out on one of the most seminal girl singers of the past 30 years. They're actually touring this year, too.
Also no Haim but I don't care about them.


Anyway women have just as much talent as men have. If they want a festival that's all-female then they should go for it. I, for one, would love to see an all-female music festival, unless one already exists in which case I ask when and where?

>>53893900
and there could be an amazing line up with all males

>>53893924
The question is why? Why is Reading/Leeds really light on females every year?
And why are there so few female musicians in general?

to be fair this lineup looks better than the legit one, i'd probably go to this.

>>53893690
yeah and she could kick your ass into the dirt motherfucker, laura is GOAT

>>53893962
there are way more female pop stars because they all care about image only. there are very few women that care about actually making good music (but the ones that do are as good as men)
>>53893967
>pleb
>sjw
what a surprise

>>53893967
Not the point. The creator has purposefully picked really good bands with female members to make it look like female musicians make for better bands.

>>53893745
I have friends going to this

mostly to meet up with some others, but fuck spending £250 on a ton of bands i don't want to see.
There are a couple I'd like to see though, I'll list them because I have too much free time:
The Libertines
Kendrick (idk how he is live)
American Football
Run the Jewels
Mastodon
Refused
Cancer Bats
Ghost
Gojira
Azealia Banks
A$ap Ferg
Fltbush Zombies

I'm mostly an indiefag but seriously there are no good indie bands there

Maybe because there are more men A) making music and B) making better music.

>>53893846
see>>53893893, >>53893938

you're making a fallacious argument. please stop. gender has nothing to do with artistry. if you're a post-ironic mastur b8er, good fucking job. otherwise, cut this shit out; you're embarrasing me.

>>53893789
obviously not. this is just tumblr "logic" in OP's argument, which I was just trying to expose.

>>53893745
The lineup in OPs is legitimately better.

Also American Football and Limp Bizkit on the same stage, same day?

holy shit, just don't go to the fucking festival if you disagree with their ethics. book your own and realize how difficult it is booking bands for a show let alone booking a multiple day festival.

>>53894028
then why didn't the R+L organisers pick any of those bands

>>53894088
I am the OP, and I was just asking why R/L is male-dominated, which it is. That's a fact.
I don't think its because of sexism, but then what IS the reason?

That lineup is 1000 times better than the real one, which is horrendous.

Men dominate because whenever women do make music it gets plenty of "for girl music" or "oh an all-girl band". We're conditioned that men make music and perform starting all the way back from composers (even though many women likely wrote famous classical pieces that are attributed to men. Bach's wife likely wrote some of 'his' compositions.

>>53894127
Appealing to a pleb demographic. Dumb kids with lots of money

>>53894139
>>53894127
because those artists aren't as popular. at the end of the day festivals are all about making money, and they'll make less money if they have less popular bands

>>53894152
Note we're only talking about bands with female members, not all-girl bands. As far as I can tell, having a female instrumentalist in your band, or being a female producer is a pretty good selling point, is it not?

>>53894152
I think the issue lies in the fact that many "all girl bands" these days choose to acknowledge the fact making their message overtake the actual art that they're producing. It waters it down. Perfect Pussy, Sleater Kinney, Pussy Riot, literally any local band in the scene with a female musician will always make it about the message and not about the art.

>>53894175
Doesn't answer my Q
Why is it male-dominated? Has nothing to do with the popularity of the artists

>>53893585
Does it actually matter? Don't people go to festivals to listen to music? I don't care if your drummer is a black pansexual transgender woman with half a head-mate that suggests she's a giraffe princess, if you make good music, I'd go to your show. Fuck, isn't it more like tokenism if you make a big deal out of gender, trying to shoehorn in shit bands just because they have women in them?

>>53894200
It gives all the men who listen something to fetishize. When it's just a solo artist, you get the creeps on this board posting about Taylor Swift or Bjork

>>53894217
That's an interesting point. You think feminism is to blame for that mindset?

>>53894217
Perfect Pussy isn't an all girl band

Festivals have to work around a musician's schedule. I would assume that dozens of female prominent bands all wouldn't be available for a single festival. Nor would I want an entirely female dominated festival (unless the festival was created to be that) as that would be just as bad as having a male dominated festival.

I don't understand why anything that isn't 50/50 on male and female (or representing a multitude of races) is considered offensive, like there's someone in the background actively trying to make sure that female or different race bands don't play the festival. It's just a consequence of schedules and there being less legitimate female prominent bands/artists that aren't vapid pop stars. There being less female prominent bands/artists again isn't a result of someone saying that women can't be musicians, it just happens that women aren't as likely as men to be legitimate artists. You can cherrypick both ways but unless someone strictly puts a quota on women musicians (which is a bad thing) and all these women musicians just happen to be free for the festival, it just isn't going to happen.

>>53894217
>>53894256
Or maybe the point is that your art has a message? And you're making music to illustrate it?

Sometimes we need a Guernica in art. Not just something nice to hear/see

>>53894236
Literally this. The people who bring these things up are doing nothing to help their crusade.

>>53894250
Pretty sure I've never seen anyone here fetishize the women in Electric Wizard, GY!BE, Portishead, Deerhoof, or Arcade Fire m80

>>53894225
it does though. ask any pleb who the original artists are and they will tell you a lot of them. ask them who bjork is and they won't have a clue
>>53894250
>le all men are secretly perverts meme
wowie i'm lolling right now xD
Captcha: Aymen

>>53893745
Only 6 acts I'd want to see there. What a shitty line up.

>>53894236
Well like I said earlier, a lot of people instantly assume that its because of sexism that a field is male-dominated, without any evidence to back up that claim.
I don't think its a bad thing that a festival or industry is male-dominated, so long as the reason is sound. So what is the reason?

I really want to go to Leeds, like a lot, loving the hip-hop and Metallica will fulfill my inner teenager

Also I live in Leeds so I don't have to camp like an animal

>>53893585
Why do you care, you go because you like the bands that are gonna play, if you dont like them don't go, don't demand certain bands to play there just to fill some imaginary social quota (and when most likely you won't even be there).

>>53894285
So you're saying that mainstream artists are mostly male?
One look at the charts says otherwise

the feminist lineup is shit though, who's going to pay basically just to see bjork & M.I.A

>>53894236
this, i don't quite know what she wanted to say.
That there are many great female musicians?
We know it. Or that there are comparable number of great female to male artists?
Well, notice that most of these bands have a one woman in their line-up so the conclusion is pretty clear...

>>53894306
The problem is people assuming the cause of this gender disparity is sexism, and there's no evidence to back that up.
So I'm simply interested - why is there gender disparity? Esp with instruments or production?

>>53894348
Bullshit. This lineup is way better than the actual Reading/Leeds lineup. I'd give my left nut to see Portishead, GY!BE, Patti Smith, Deerhoof, Fever Ray, and Electric Wizard at the same festival.

>St. Vincent and Sleater-Kinney at the same festival
>St. Vincent that low down

>>53894271
I totally agree with you. I'm simply asking WHY there is a gender disparity with mainstream rock bands. I'm just interested.

>>53894256
I don't know what's to blame, I just don't like overly political works of or relating to gender and sex. If you can't make good art, make art about sex.

>>53894264
You're right, but the fact that everybody only knows Meridith kind of makes it that way. My point still stands.

>>53894274
Guernica is a piece with a message as well as an aesthetic accomplishment. These bands are focussing too hard on a message and not hard enough on the music. They are making themselves tokens in the music world and for whatever reason people are eating it up. You comparing a band like Perfect Pussy to Guernica is pretty fucked, imo.

I listen to a lot of music with a lot of messages but making the message as obvious as these artists do is lazy and totally lacks any conceptual depth.

>>53893585
This reminds me of how The Knife wouldn't play festivals unless the ration of males to females was 1:1. Which is pretty fucking insane, but whatever. And to be honest, I've never really understood the whole train of thought involved in all this. Seriously. Okay, so there's a festival. More men are present at the festival than women. Well, the festival must have something against women. I've always thought that jumping to those sorts of conclusions is pretty silly. But, again, whatever. People will get offended over anything and everything these days.

>>53894354
Yes, we've established there aren't as many female musicians as there are male.
Why is that though? If not because of sexism

>>53893585
shut up

>>53894406
Because it's mainstream? Rock with brutish men sells and dance pop with sexualized women sells. This is because of the inherent projection of listener onto the music.

If these people were to step away from the computer for 15 minutes and then delve deeper into art they'll find great art from any gender they wish.

>>53894412
It is absolutely jumping to conclusions, unless somebody can show me evidence of sexism in the music industry.
But does anybody have any idea as to what IS causing this disparity?

>>53894354
The point was that there's no good reason why only a small fraction of the R/L lineup have women in them at all and it'd be easy to have a show where all of the bands have at least one women, much less having something where women aren't such a tiny minority.

By the way, I've noticed that lots of All Tomorrow's Parties shows have way better gender balance. For example, at Jeff Mangum's fest in 2012 about half of the acts were women or had women in them.

>>53894430
There is, just not in the mainstream. "Progressives" will claim that it's because of the internalized misogyny but it's really because they can't understand that sex sells and if they want to tear something down then they should ignore it and listen to deeper cuts. Not what's on the radio.

>>53894455
What about all music in general?
I think it's clear there are FAR less female musicians than male ones. Why is that?

>>53894489
Except for the obvious reason that there are far less female rock musicians than male ones

>>53894504
>I think it's clear there are FAR less female musicians than male ones
[citation needed]

>>53894406
Why are there generally less women trying to get engineering degrees? I don't know and why should anyone care? Having everything be 50/50 men and women along with all races is never going to happen unless quotas are involved, which will just make everything worse. Men and women are just different, whether this is because of something biological or sociological, its effects are everywhere. Maybe instead of complaining about festival attendance you try and do something to get more women to be legitimate musicians. I also don't see how booking a band that has a woman in it who doesn't have anything to do with the creative process or who doesn't play an instrument solves anything. People put women as singers in their band often because they know that it'll get them more attention even if the woman is just there to stand there and look pretty.

>>53894489
You can't always do a good lineup while keeping gender in mind. You can go make a chart like in the OP with your ideal lineup but in real life you have to actually have their schedules work for it among other things. It's not like festival creators just go pick whatever bands that they want.

>>53894504
because women don't want to make music? i don't know, but what i do know is that it's not because the misogynistic overlords are forcing women not to make music

>>53894534
No citation. Just from my personal experience.
Do you beg to differ?

>>53894504
>I think it's clear there are FAR less female musicians than male ones. Why is that?

The concept of equality is a relatively new thing for women so there was a bit of a late start.

If you look past mainstream/surface level indeh blogs you'll realize that this isn't true as well.

Sex sells, see: >>53894498
>>53894567

Just because you listen to mainstream shit and buy into the idea that rock=male, dance pop = female doesn't mean that you have any credibility talking from experience.

>>53893585
The fuck is this, /mu/fest 2015? All those bands are hipster garbage.

>>53894554
>we should try and get more women to be musicians

why? who cares?

>>53894613
I'm saying that if these people do care then that's what they should be doing rather than complaining about festival lineups.

>>53894627
Or try to book their own festival. It's hard as shit to even book a few shows.

>>53894567
You see, that shit doesn't work here because the OP image actually worked out how many women actually play at Reading/Leeds this year and all you got is anecdotes.

If you wanna play the anecdote game, some of the best metal acts of recent years have women: Boris, Acid King, Electric Wizard...

>>53894489
Gender balance isn't a priority when selecting lineups, and it shouldn't be

How expensive is it to book them? What are there schedules like? How popular/acclaimed are they? What style of music do they play?

These are the questions that go into selecting bands. You can't just pick GY!BE or Bjork on a whim just because you'd like more females. There are plenty of good female artists, but you're very fucking naive

>>53893585
While I'm not sure about the statement being made with the post, I would see this lineup in a heartbeat

>>53894598
>Fleetwood Mac, Florence & the machine, st. vincent, lorde, the xx, chvrches, arcade fire, mia, tegan and sara, missy elliot, royksopp & robyn
>hipster

are you that disconnected from pop culture?

>>53894699
>You can't just pick GY!BE or Bjork on a whim just because you'd like more females.
Of course not, but that was the point of me contrasting the actual Reading/Leeds lineup with an ATP lineup is that it's really fucking easy to have more women in your lineup without purposefully seeking out to do so.

>>53894753
Says who? Read again what I said about priorities

>>53894819
>Says who?
Says all the people who curated an ATP fest, and just happened to have way more acts with women in them while presumably not intending to do so. I kinda doubt that the R/L planners just "happened" to only get 10 acts with women in them, and I can't say whether it's malicious or just a coincidence, but the point of OP was that it's not right either way.

>>53894707
Yes, they are hipster. Not because they're obscure but because they attract masses of pretentious douchebags.

Maybe except for Missy Elliot. She kind of feels like she doesn't fit into that lineup.

>>53893585
They spelled kylesa wrong..

>>53894876
ATP is not the same festival. They're a lot more hip and can have more cool bands that they personally like. It's not the same thing because it's personally curated by Jeff AFAIK, so what is your point?

Please explain why gender balance should be a priority at a music festival

>>53894941
im not saying it should, what i'm saying is that the reading/leeds lineup almost looks like they purposely avoided women in their selection of acts with how few there are

>>53895001
Well they probably didn't. If you want to think that the people who curated it all just don't like women, then you're free to think that

>>53893585
>like 5 popular acts that dont attract the same crowds (people dont go to a festival unless they like a band on each day)
>the rest are unpopular acts that are gimmicks or one hit wonders at best

Way to crash and burn reading.

>>53893846
um, because getting almost every good female act to turn up to the same festival (which demands they also go to the other festival btw) would be impossible

>>53894088
>gender dusnt matter
>waaahhh no women at reading
>>53894139
girls tend to want to be solo acts, and tend to like pop music more or go on to musicals instead of bands. Though perhaps the deeper cause for that is sexism, I don't know.

>>53893745

Good god, what a terrible lineup.

>>53895275
>girls tend to want to be solo acts, and tend to like pop music more or go on to musicals instead of bands.

[citation needed]

>>53893585
>Kylesa
>Electric Wizard
>Jucifer
>GY!BE
>Bjork
>Portishead
I wish R&L was ever this good.

>>53895296
Not him but if you need a fucking citation for that there's something very ,very wrong with you.

>>53895326
>appeal to common sense
>anecdotal
topkek

This is the same shitty complaint that's ruining television

Forced diversity is never a good thing. If you're actively trying to get someone of a certain race or gender or sexuality in your show/music line-up/movie to be diverse you're doing something wrong. You should cast/hire people who are right for the role, it doesn't matter who they are.

>>53895296
Rawlings, D.; Ciancarelli, V. (1 October 1997). "Music Preference and the Five-Factor Model of the NEO Personality Inventory". Psychology of Music 25 (2): 120–132.

next question cunt

>>53895367
You know Harvey Keitel's role in Taxi Driver was supposed to be played by a black dude?

>>53895453
Why'd they swap him out?

>>53895451
>Rawlings, D.; Ciancarelli, V. (1 October 1997). "Music Preference and the Five-Factor Model of the NEO Personality Inventory". Psychology of Music 25 (2): 120–132.
>1 October 1997
>1997
that shit's outdated son

>>53895453
was it changed for quality or racial politics reasons

>>53895530
Oh, I suppose gravity is outdated because newton was from the 19th century.

That's an appeal to age, you need to prove it has been disproven to show it is outdated, not just that it is old.

>>53895593
18th*

>>53895520
>>53895540
No its because Harvey was good for the role, he was supposed to play the campaign manager guy that Travis doesn't like, but he wanted to be the pimp

The point is he was just right for the role despite being white. In the script the pimp was black, but Scorsese convinced the screenwriter that Harvey is the man

I'm just trying to say that I agree that gender/race is second to talent

>>53895677
ah,I just assume every post on 4chan is disagreeing with me, old habits

>>53895714
Same here, I was revving up my damage control

>>53895677
The funny part is, when people fight for diversity in mainly tv shows (and they almost always seem to be white people who think they're doing god's work) it's encouraging the mindset that people should only be looked at and thought of for their gender/race/sexuality. It's doing way more harm than good

>>53895808
Also, opposing affirmative action ect is a gateway drug into proper racism as stormfront ect like to try to poach those people. I think it does more harm than good.

>>53893585
R/L doesn't have no women because it's sexist, it has no women because it's a shitty festival that has shitty acts. I mean, Limp Biskit? Really?