Have any other modern artists been able to shift between popular and art music so well?
i'll humor you, OPwhat "art music" has Sufjan done?
>>52905179Sufjan has never written art music. He has written a Pop appropriation of Minimalist music a la Steve Reich.There's nothing wrong with that. But it isn't art music.
What's his art music? BQE? Enjoy Your Rabbit?
>>52905201>>52905209What is "art" music I may ask? Is there a definition for it?
A couple (Reznor, Waits, Beck) but yeah Sufjan had an edge because from the get-go he could read and write music + Michigan and Illinois were so Reich/Glass heavy that he had a lot of ease in being a critic darling.Love his music though, he is my role-model when it comes to the music industry.>>52905209http://pitchfork.com/news/54754-sufjan-stevens-scored-ballet-everywhere-we-go-previewed-in-new-video/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_BQE_%28soundtrack%29http://www.nycballet.com/ballets/y/year-of-the-rabbit.aspxhttp://www.bam.org/music/2015/round-upThat's what OP is talking about you edgelord. Sufjan has been commissioned to do far more "artsy" things than many other artists have.
>>52905237yeah
ITT: nobody is classically trained and yet they use the phrase "art music" anyways
>>52905201>>52905237The only compositions by Sufjan which can be marginally called variants of art music are "Out of Egypt" from Illinois and a piece he did for a Nico Muhly album.Both are similar in style.>>52905248OP means "classical music." If we were to get into the specifics of art music, we'd waste a lot of time.>>52905263I saw a ballet last month that was based around Hip-Hop.Is Hip-Hop art music now?
>>52905237Enjoy Your Rabbit is probably the closest thing, BQE is tougher to place. >>52905209I wouldn't really call any Sufjan music "minimalist" really, at least not any of his more orchestrally oriented stuff. Like, All Delighted People is about as Maximalist and Wagnerian as you can get and while Illinoise bears some Reichian qualities it's still bombastic as fuck.
>>52905179maybe Jonny Greenwood
>>52905285>I saw a ballet last month that was based around Hip-Hop.based on hip-hop =/= is hip-hopif it's a ballet it's a ballet. doesn't matter what it's based on. as far as sufjan, if you weren't so set on baiting, you'd know that he is indeed clasically trained, even if very little, and can indeed produce a good enough score to be used in other things (such as the film "Eve" by Natalie Portman, which he also scored).you're just being a cuck
>>52905310Ah, a legitimate answer!Also Bryce Dessner.
>>52905285>Is Hip-Hop art music now?I certainly don't see why it can't be.
>>52905179>Have any other modern artists been able to shift between popular and art music so well?
Sufjan Stevens person is art :)
>>52905318Your implication is that all ballets are art music. Which seems very ludicrous. On what grounds would you base that?>you'd know that he is indeed clasically trainedI am fully aware of this and am also aware that he is a competent composer of pop music...
>>52905328If it matured along with the rest of its contemporary genres, it could be.Problem is that the genre itself appears to just be infinitely juvenile/insignificant.>>52905330Not art music.
>>52905179Mica Levi's soundtrack for Under The Skin (plus she's composed for the Sinfonietta many times before), along with her other work with Micachu and the Shapes (and the Kwesachu beat tapes)oh and Arthur Russell, I guess?? Though I don't know how easily his work slots into "popular music"
>>52905385Hip-hop has barely been around for 30 years, give it some time. Also I think saying that all hip-hop is juvenile or insignificant is pretty fuckin' wrong honestly, there's plenty of thoughtful and "mature" hip-hop music out there.
>>52905352as he is a competent composer of "art" music.from OPs post it can be inferred (as you picked up on) that he meant music which was "classical." the BQE and his ballets do very much fit this template (piano and string sections are very commonly labeled "art" music). ballet can definitely be art, and since we're talking about sufjan let's use glass as an example:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thxQZeF010Athat is one of glass' best pieces and it most certainly can be considered "art" music. ballet music is derivatively art because ballet itself is a discipline which has in history very much so been considered an art. you can make the argument that thus, all ballet music is art. >>52905385>Problem is that the genre itself appears to just be infinitely juvenile/insignificant.this is so fucking idiotic, uninformed and coincidentally juvenile that it is clear that your opinions are completely worthless. it's clear you're just being le ebin maymay bait xD at this point.
>>52905431I spent one thread (about 100-200 posts) asking for recommendations of seriously written, sophisticated Hip-Hop and came with about 1 track which suffered the "goofy" problem.Whenever a Hip-Hop artist starts to deviate towards art-sier brands of music, they always make it under a layer of comedy and sarcasm. It comes off as insincere.
Let's exclude the immense faggotry that plagues the rest of this thread and ask:How hype are you for the new album?
>>52905458>(piano and string sections are very commonly labeled "art" music)Instrumentation is not a barometer for determining if something is classical music.>that is one of glass' best piecesThat's not Music in Twelve Parts...>ballet music is derivatively art...I don't deny that all of ballet (dancing) is art. Perhaps you have a point.
>>52905201The BQE, Round-Up, Year of the Rabbit, the other ballet, and Planetarium. Planetarium was a collaboration with Nico Muhly, but the others were completely original pieces.Some might consider Majesty Snowbird or Out of Egypt to be art music.
>>52905486>asking /mu/ for recommendations when the majority of people like kanyein any case it seems as though comedy to you exists outside the realm of "art" (which is bullshit unless you consider literature to exist outside of art, and if you think chaucer was an unfunny potato) which means that no matter what you won't change your mind. just ignore hip-hop all together if you feel that way.>>52905539>Instrumentation is not a barometer for determining if something is classical music.no shit, i was referring to what could be inferred from OPs post as being "art" music.>music in twelve partsok now we're just dicking around, he has done way too much music to start this debate>>52905503i've listened to that trailer 50 times now
>>52905486>implyingWhile I wouldn't call it "art music" in the same sense that like, La Monte Young would be considered "art music", "Be" by Common is one of my favorite hip-hop albums and is pretty sophisticated. Endtroducing by DJ Shadow is a pretty good example of instrumental hip-hop at a fairly serious level. I'm not sure what qualifies as "seriously written" to you so both of these recommendations may simply fall flat but to dismiss an entire genre as infantile is pretty narrow minded IMO.
>>52905285>nico muhly>albumYou don't know who Nico Muhly is.
>>52905385>Laughing Stock>not art music
>>52905601I can't listen to the trailer, I watched once and that's it. Don't want 1:30 of the song to be a drag when I listen to it in its finality
>>52905263Huh sorry. Didn't know about that.
>>52905539Pretty fuckin' hype, Suffy is my hero. I'm a little concerned that an alleged "return to folk roots" might actually just mean it's kind of a boring album - like, can it possibly be better than Seven Swans?
>>52905601>in any case it seems as though comedy to you exists outside the realm of "art"Not at all; but when it is all comedy it comes off as not "I chose this jagged production because of how it embodies my tormented feelings" but rather as "I chose this jagged production because it sounds goofy while I rap.">no shit, i was referring to what could be inferred from OPs post as being "art" music.Ah, misinterpreted. >"Be" by CommonI'll try and listen to it.>Endtroducing by DJ ShadowEven Endtroducing though is failed by its fairly sterile and uneventful environments.
>>52905237Planetarium or Round-Up also
>>52905637I'm well aware of who he is. The album was "Balance Problems."If you'd like, I can pull up the countless posts by classical labels that refer to their releases as albums...>>52905643Please define art music for me.
>>52905285so much ignorance...
>>52905330it must be art, it has birds on it
>>52905744I enjoyed reading your educated reply.
>>52905285Why can't hip-hop be art music?Art music is music meant for artistic ambition before commercial success. Sufjan's orchestral work (which is mostly unable to be bought) absolutely qualifies.
But seriously: Bryce Dessner or Jonny Greenwood are the answers to the OP's question.Everyone should check out Greenwood's "36 Responses to Polymorphia" as well as pic related.
>>52905704i don't understand, your criticisms are far too personal to have an validity in public discourse. are you seriously implying that comedy doesn't exist in "classical" music you fucking dumbass? it's as though you seem to forget that mozart wrote a song called "lick my arse." just because the entirety of a rap album is not "le srs omg im so hurt listen to my art" does not mean that you can invalidate the songs that do try to adhere to said formula of seriousness. here, let me analyze>jagged productionit is a tradition in the genre to utilize old vinyl records for sampling, as well as other common items that more often than not have suffered damage through age. are there not traditions in "art" music? what is a nocturne? fugue? are you fucking stupid or what?>uneventfulyou can call so many pieces uneventful it's by default an invalid form of criticism. what is eventful for you? crescendos? ostinatos? staccatos? I-V-iii progressions? it's a moot point
>>52905310Yep yepI'd say Trent Reznor but he mostly does soundtracks
I really enjoy when I try to show respect to people and they reply like assholes.On a related note:>>52905857>are you seriously implying that comedy doesn't exist in "classical" music you fucking dumbass?I never implied that. Are you implying that MOST classical music is based around comedy?>you can call so many pieces uneventful it's by default an invalid form of criticism. The tracks have very little development. Their elements are very sparse, with oftentimes not a lot of meaningful music occuring.
>>52905385Oh my god you fucking trollLots of jazz is juvenile. Lots of rock is juvenile. Lots of operettas are juvenile. They still can be art music.
>mfw i saw planetarium, everywhere we go (the ballet), and have tickets to see round-up next weeku jelly?
>>52905902The MAJORITY of those genres are not comedic.
>sufhack stevens>2015haha
>>52905828art music has to be notated to be performed. And no, art music is not "music meant for artistic ambition before commercial success" (Well it is but it can't be objectively proved) classicalfags just say it to disprove all pop music.
>>52905889ok never mind, you're oblivious to your own lack of hard criticism.>lack developmentof what? musical ideas? phrases? sample alterations? chord progressions? lyrical narratives? it's a fucking moot point how do you not see this>elements are very sparsewhich elements? the samples? the rap's rhythm? the lyrical cohesiveness? the vocal tones? again, moot fucking point. >not a lot of meaningful music occurringholy fuck again and again with this fucking guy. define "meaningful music" please.
>>52905503I've cum four times already
>>52905958>of what? musical ideas?Yeah musical ideas. I think any person with a basic understanding of music theory would understand what I was getting at.You know what? Fuck it. You aren't willing to have a discussion.
>>52905919>tfw I don't live in Brooklyn
>>52905947>art music has to be notated to be performed. yeah maybe 100 years ago that would be true but if contemporary "art" music has taught us anything is that this set of criteria has gone out the window
>>52905179What is your criteria for "modern"Scott Walker's still around
>>52905739No you fuck. I meant Planetarium. "Balance Problems" is some collaboration they worked on, along with several other artists.
Fucking David Bowie is the king of thatt. rockist
>>52905947Classical Hindustani and Chinese music are not art music? Improvisational jazz is not art music?
>>52905988it's pretty great manexcept there is an overwhelming sense of loneliness, being surrounded by people constantly but they're all strangersand those two cops were shot about two blocks from my apt, shit is pretty fucked up sometimesbut i get to see suf so it's all okay
>>52905990Pretty sure stockhausen and john cage were still writing sheets for most of their 2deep4u music. I mean, notation is the main purpose of how this music is played and preserved.
>>52905979i have more than a basic understanding but if you are unwilling to actually clearly state what it is that you mean then you're far more unready for a discussion than I am. i am more than willing but you keep providing shallow "criticism" that has no objectivity to it, which is what this discussions is about, objectively "art" music, and what music can work under this realm. i am not the guy that made the argument that hip-hop is "art" music but it's clear that YOU don't know why it ISN'T. you keep giving us shit reasons as to why you think the way you do and then get buttmad when pried for more information. you're an idiot. stay away from being a critic and/or musician pls
>>52906016This would be 100% correct, but OP stipulated that the artist had to be modern.
>>52906044no. classical hindustani and chinese music are both traditional while improvisational jazz is not really art music or pop music. It's somewhere between
>>52905919are those ladies sufjan's polygamous wives
>>52906054If you would phrase yourself in a mature way, perhaps I would continue the argument.
>>52906047Yeah man I live in a fairly large city in the northeast so I know that feel. No cops have been shot near my house, which is nice, though normal people have. Being close to Sufjan would probably make it all worth it.
>>52906054I like you, anon.>>52906097>Being a faggot>on 4chanWhy
>>52906077>improvisational jazz is not really art musicimprov jazz is basically the scat same thing as most classical hindu music, it's improvisation that follows a certain set of rules. it might sound un-cohesive to the ear, but on paper it makes absolute perfect sense. unless it's "free" jazz which can sometimes be completely outside the dimension of "rules of music."
>>52906054I think he's trying to say that hip hop isn't art music because it's made by black people.
>>52906086based shara worden on the right, not sure who the ugly one is
>>52906122the difference is that classical hindu music is a tradition that was passed down for hundreds of years while improv jazz is fairly new. It might become traditional music in the future if it will get picked by a certain culture and will become affiliated with said culture. But I don't see it happening really. For the time being we answer the question that is improv jazz with a question mark.
>>52906120Apparently "being a faggot" is not wanting to be bashed over the course of the argument needlessly.I'm not going to waste an hour getting yelled at while trying to calmly speak.It's a waste of my time.
>>52906097*tips fedora* My mistake M'Gentleman, I should have known that higher beings who center themselves on culture and proper grammar without contractions (save for M'Lady of course) while having a penance for wine is absolutely more paramount that having a well thought out opinion.
>>52906163Her work with the Decemberists is incredible
>>52906199>>52906191
>>52906175Ok I see your point, I would argue that the concept of music having two separate realms ("art" and "non-art music") is fairly new, but I think the existence of Folk music (ethnically unique music) that was contemporary to academic music since at least 800 years ago can disprove that.
>>52906235haven't heard it, is it an album? my brightest diamond is pretty great. i love her voice
>>52906120Please go back to /b/
>>52906122What fucking "rules" does Indian twingtwang have?
>>52906245It's not divided to "art music" and "non-art music" it's just a part of the triad that was made to distinguish between musical genres. The triad is very true by the way. Pop, Traditional, and Art Music are all equal after all and don't let any classicalfag tell you otherwise.
>>52906284>i don't understand it so i outright dismiss itc'mon man
>>52906250The Hazards of Love. You should listen immediately.
>>52906323will do. haven't ever listened to the decemberists actually
>>52906352They're pretty good, although Hazards of Love isn't that great tbh (or at least I don't feel that it is). It comes across as a little too Broadway-ish for me. Check out Picaresque, the Tain or the Crane Wife.
Oh boy, time to deal with you little monkeys>>52905201None, pop fans like to feel like big kids though.>>52905209Minimalism isn't even art music, people here are silly.>>52905328Because it's the lowest form of music.>>52905431All popular music is immature.>>52905458>u dont know what art music is but i talk anyway>>52905584>Some might consider Majesty Snowbird or Out of Egypt to be art music.The retarded may.>>52905601Hip hop is to art music as sloppily-done graffiti is to a Rembrandt.>>52905621La Monte Young isn't art music.>and is pretty sophisticatedNope.>52905643Pop shite.>>52905828Because it's shite>Sufjan's orchestral work... absolutely qualifies.Why?>>52905857>it's as though you seem to forget that mozart wrote a song called "lick my arse.As a joke for his drunken friends.>>52905889>I never implied that. Are you implying that MOST classical music is based around comedy?No, because most isn't theatrical.>>52905902Jazz and rock are not art music.>>52905990There is no modern art music, there is a disturbing image of a hairy asshole.>>52906016Not an ounce of art.>>52906044Correct.>>52906054>i have more than a basic understandingYou don't.>>52906315They're not remotely equal, silly Marxist.
>>52906530Whew, so many opinions! Careful brother, you might accidentally cut yourself on that edge there. ;)
>>52906530>They're not remotely equal, silly Marxist.They are completely equal, silly capitalist.
>>52906574dank meme friend, I'd 4:20 PM blunt it with you frequently.>>52906592Because you, an uneducated teenager, says so?The antonym(s) of Marxism is hard work and genuine effort, btw.
>>52906620You too bro, you too. <3Still though you're making a lot of pretty bold claims with out explaining any of them, not very academic of you.
>>52906352They're actually quite good. I'd encourage you to check out the Tain and Picaresque too
>>52906700The Tain is so awesome
>>52906620lel who needs hard work and genuine effort when your parents are fucking loaded amirite?
>>52906352The Decemberists are really good
>>52906759yee mayne 380 wave it doge
>>52906811Have you heard the new album? I'm not blown away by it but it is pretty good. Make You Better is a damn good song.
>>52906815haha meme it over 9000 mah dankiest nugga :^)
>>52906530kill urself my man
>>52906730Yeah that's what made me realize the Decemberists are really talented
>>52906842Nope, I'm waiting for the official release. From what I've heard it's not amazing, but I'm happy to hear more Decemberists.
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