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As Dark As My Soul Default Fuuka

/mu/ - Music (Temp full images)


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File: 38 KB, 580x372, hackhausen.jpg [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45147645 No.45147645 [Reply] [Original]

Objectively bad composers edition.

>> No.45147676
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45147676

>>45147645

>> No.45147705
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45147705

>> No.45147710
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45147710

>> No.45147716
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45147716

>> No.45147747
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45147747

>> No.45147763

>>45147747
>>45147716
stop

>> No.45147802

>>45147763
>liking Mozart ripoffs and Half ass Bach's

>> No.45147805
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45147805

>>45147645
Kek

>> No.45147814

Schoenberg.

>> No.45147849

>>45147623
Their whining had a positive effect in that less people began following those evil serialists. Maybe if they never whined we'd really be in a state where harmony wouldn't exist anymore.

>> No.45147854

>>45147645
Why do people get buttblasted over Stockhausen when hacks like John Corigliano and David Del Tredici are much more popular?

>> No.45147868
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45147868

I think we can all agree Young Mozart is shit, but Older Mozart is brilliant.

>> No.45147878

>>45147854
>John Corigliano and David Del Tredici
Who?

>> No.45147922
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45147922

>> No.45147943

>>45147849
>This serialism is holocausting my ears
>I'm twelve semi-steps away from a gas chamber

>> No.45147965

>>45147849
>Their whining had a positive effect in that less people began following those evil serialists.

That would be hard considering 'evil serialists' was a bogeyman. Glass and Reich decided to drop out of Western art music and make pretty patterns instead.

>> No.45148057

>>45147965
You seriously prefer neanderthals hitting pianos and modulated children voices over pretty patterns?

>> No.45148085

>Neoconservative postmodernism...critically engages modernism, but rejects it out of hand. Neoconservative composers employ premodern styles in an attempt to bring a new type of coherence to the 'heterogeneous present' and re-establish the dominance of Western musical practice. Jann Pasler notes the musical characteristics that are indicative of a neoconservative postmodernism: "In music, we all know about the nostalgia that has gripped composers in recent years, resulting in neo-romantic works ... the sudden popularity of writing operas and symphonies again, of construing one's ideas in tonal terms. ...Many of those returning to romantic sentiment, narrative curve, or simple melody wish to entice audiences back to the concert hall. To the extent that these developments are a true "about face," they represent a postmodernism of reaction, a return to pre-modernist musical thinking. Neoconservative postmodernism is understood as a 'return to the verities of tradition (in art, family, religion ...)' and where, crucially, modernism 'is reduced to a style ... and condemned or excised entirely as a cultural mistake; pre- and postmodern elements are then elided, and the humanist tradition is preserved.

Is this what CLT means by 'regenerate'?

>> No.45148098

>>45147814
>was a generic composer
>broke away from genericness by making utterly shit music
>spawned a whole legion of equally shit composers
>legion of shit composers almost killed western art music
looks like we have a /thread here

>> No.45148216

>>45148098
>>legion of shit composers almost killed western art music

You must be referring to the explosive growth of popular music in the first half of the 20th century. It's naive to think Western art music could ever compete with the pop single for listeners' attention.

>> No.45148238

>>45148216
It's like you're ignoring the OP pic on purpose.

>> No.45148372
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45148372

>> No.45148448
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45148448

king of shit

>> No.45148469

>>45148372

wrong

>> No.45148500

>>45147645
yes

>>45147676
lel

>>45147705
yes

>>45147710
no

>>45147716
no

>>45147747
no

>>45147868
controversial but agreed

>>45147814
yes

>>45147922
yes

>>45148372
no

>>45148448
nah

>> No.45148623
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45148623

>>45147922
>>45148500

>> No.45148649
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45148649

>>45148623
ur shite at this

>> No.45148947
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45148947

>>45148649
shut up and check these

>> No.45149348

>>45148448
more like king of COOL

>> No.45149745

>>45147802
Very little of what Beethoven did was derivative of Mozart and his main influences were Bach and Haydn respectively. This is why counterpoint makes a rather massive comeback in the work of Beethoven where it was previously unheard except by Bach's progeny, hitherto. In fact if it hadn't been for the publication of "the western musical canon" Mozart probably would have been a blip in history and Haydn would appropriately receive the honours bestowed upon Mozart since the late 19th century.

>> No.45149822

>>45147814
Sorry, but no.
Schönberg is a master composer.

>the romantic era couldn't last forever
>tonality was a broken beast
>Schönberg cleared the slate for everyone

>> No.45149968

>>45149822
>Schönberg
>not romantic
kek

>> No.45149999

>>45149968
He's full of romantic-ness. I hope I didn't imply otherwise.
Those strings...

>> No.45150019

>>45149999
nice repeating digits babe

>> No.45150047
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45150047

>>45150019
holy shit... QUADS
pic not related

>> No.45150132

Pärt

>> No.45150138

>>45149822
>the slate was tarnished to begin with
>implying the french (Debussy) school wasn't taking us in a much more interesting direction

>> No.45150151

>>45150138
They weren't.

>> No.45150171

>>45150138
>implying music didn't split into a million different direction about that time anyway

>> No.45150230
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45150230

https://filepost
.com/folder/3bff1324/

>> No.45150262

any avant-garde bros here? i'm in dire need of some recs
it doesn't have to be classical avant-garde, anything is welcome.

>> No.45150413

>>45150262
Nico:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEFp7kR5K-A

Meredith Monk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7su7d76LhWg

>> No.45150472

>>45150171
Yeah but it basically came down to varying degrees of chromaticism with Debussy exploring the far reaches of tonality and Schoenberg explicitly avoiding it.

>> No.45150670

>>45150413
>Nico
no thanks m8
>Meredith Monk
interesting

>> No.45150845

>>45150472
... and everything everyone else was doing

>> No.45150896

>>45150845
What was Scriabin doing? What was Ravel doing? Okay Stravinsky was exploring rhythm a bit more explicitly than anyone else, I'll give you that.

>> No.45150932

>>45150845
how does it feel that your precious Reich got BTFO in the last thread CLT?

http://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/mu/thread/45121436

>> No.45150960

>>45150670

Nico is goat

>> No.45150997

>>45150960
eh, i'm going to give her a shot later, i only heard her on VU&N and she kind of ruined the album for me.

got some modern avant-garde? like, last 10-20 years

>> No.45151098

>>45150997

Unsuk Chin's RUSTLIN' concerto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ozF3AvKB0

>> No.45151175

>>45150932
I can't find it

>>45150896
>What were two guys doing?

>> No.45151185

>>45151098
wow this is really cool

>> No.45151203

>>45150262
Jeck:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-3wiU_xDZA
Grisey:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk0S_MYm748
Melnyk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cXN8s1f8ec
Zappa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziNS9DQC4E0

>> No.45151251

>>45151203
thank you

>> No.45151254

>>45151175
>I can't find it
http://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/mu/thread/45121436#p45146366

>> No.45151340

>>45151254
I don't have a JSTOR account. Quote the passage that "BTFO" Reich?

>> No.45152045
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45152045

Boy do I have a treat for you all

http://sounz.org.nz/sample_video/3055

Stockhausen eat your heart out

I'd suggest full screen

>> No.45152123

>>45152045
screamer

>> No.45152640

>>45149745
>Mozart didn't influence Beethoven

Really /classical/? We're just going to let this one slide?

>> No.45152712

>>45152640
Over the next few years, Beethoven responded to the widespread feeling that he was a successor to the recently deceased Mozart by studying that master's work and writing works with a distinctly Mozartean flavor.

Straight from Wikipedia's mouth

>> No.45152749

>>45152712
>wikipedia
>not biased, especially in articles concerning artists

>> No.45152850

>>45152749
>Actually knowing anything for certain

When was the last time you spoke to Beethoven?
Last time I skyped him he was on a mad Buxtehude binge

>> No.45153038

>>45148085
that's pretty reasonable actually

>> No.45153079
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45153079

does anyone like Heinz Kiessling i can't seem to find anyone that knows him and i absolutely love his compositions so much

>> No.45153097

>>45153079
>His piece "Temptation Sensation" is used as the theme song for the FXX TV show It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
D-d-d-d-dropped

>> No.45153114

>>45152749
>implying composer articles aren't written by consulting musicological scholarship

>> No.45153123

>>45153079
I dunno if that David Rose type stuff really qualifies as classical

>> No.45153154

>>45153123
yeah but MU never just has a compositional thread its always just classical thought i'd try here

>> No.45153156

>>45153114
[citation needed]

As I frequently read on wikipedia whilst reading these articles. Also, what is cherrypicking.

>> No.45153188

>>45153079
I enjoy his super upbeat 80s German sound. Very pristine and clear.
Perfect for the idiocy of Always Sunny

>> No.45153231

>>45148372
Shit symphonist, but not a shit composer

>> No.45153237
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45153237

>>45153097
>not liking IASIP

>> No.45153601
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45153601

>>45147645
Nah, Stocky 50-60's period amazing, one of the last composers with a strong personal identity and will. also a solid 9/10 qt

Listen to pic related and tell me you didn't reach higher realms of consciousness

>> No.45153646

Hey I was wondering why great Chopin players don't seem to care about his 1st Nocturne, why?

Do they think it's shitty?

>> No.45153651

>>45153601
it's shit

>> No.45153707

>>45153651
>I can't into astral projection
It's okay, it's not for everyone :D

>> No.45153799

>>45153646
I was wondering that as well

>> No.45153819

>>45153707
>>45153601
fuck off

>> No.45153827

Chopin is entry level, guys

>> No.45153858

>>45153819
Fuck off kid

>>45153827
What isn't entry-level?

>> No.45153964

>>45153827
>What isn't entry-level?
I mean Bach, Mozart, Beethoven could be considered entry level as well, it's still some of the best music there is

>> No.45154014

>>45147814
Schoenberg was fantastic.
>>45150151
This what plebs actually think.
>>45150262
How deep are you in?

>> No.45154073

>>45153964
>>45153858
don't listen to them, they try to be special snowflakes

>> No.45154136

>>45154014
>How deep are you in?
i've just dabbled when it comes to more classical stuff.
when it comes to experimental rock/folk i'm pretty alright.
i'm pretty much open for anything.

>> No.45154253
File: 1.50 MB, 1600x1200, not entry level.png [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45154253

>>45153858

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hPkJW95jsw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWdQBblec0M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_kkTO33GcY

>> No.45154256

>>45153964
I agree but generally their highest regarded compositions are not even close to being their best. Moonlight Sonata is probably not even the top ten Beethoven sonatas. Turkish March? Who gives a fuck?

>> No.45154276

>>45154253
>ferney
>xenakis
>stocky
based fucking list

>> No.45154290

>>45154253
>Stockhausen and Xenakis
>Not entry-level avant-garde

>> No.45154300

>>45154253
All those shit composers on one list.

>> No.45154355

>>45154290
>>45154300
say what you like of whether they're good or bad (I don't particularly care for stocky or ferneyhough) but they aint for the entry level listener. I was more looking for fucked up soundscapes as far from "classical" music as possible

>> No.45154361

>>45154256
>highest regarded
I think you mean famous

The 9th is among both his most highest regarded and famous, and you could very well make a case of it being his peak achievement

>> No.45154395

anyone using entry-level needs to commit suicide asap

>> No.45154481

>>45154290
Entry level avant-garde is stuff like TMR. Stocky and Xenakis are popular, but not entry level.
>>45154395

>> No.45154497

>>45154253
theyre all shit tho

>> No.45154504

>>45154497
[2]

>> No.45154537

>>45154497
[5]

>> No.45154538

>>45153858
>What isn't entry-level?
Hyacinthe Jadin.
>>45154497
[3]

>> No.45154568

>>45154537
are you retarded son

>> No.45154596

>>45154497
>>45154504
>>45154537
>>45154538
>>45154568
You don't have to same homosexual to make a point you know

>> No.45154611

>>45154596
how fucking new are you

>> No.45154642

>>45154504
>>45154537
>>45154538
dafuqs up with the square bracketed numbers?

>>45154611
He's a [7]

>> No.45154647 [DELETED] 
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45154647

EDM Thread

Am I the only person in /mu/ who likes dubstep/house/trance?

>> No.45154649

>>45154596
>same homosexual
[citation needed]

>> No.45154657

>>45154642
see >>45154611

>> No.45154660

>>45154611
Two years new, why?

>> No.45154669
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45154669

>>45154647

>> No.45154671 [DELETED] 
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45154671

>>45154647
YOU'VE COME TO THE WRONG NEIGHBORHOOD, MOTHERFUCKER!

>> No.45154681

>>45154642
>>45154596
Oh wow, boys.

>> No.45154708

>>45154660
you seem to be so new you don't know how post timers work

>> No.45154717

>>45154642
>He's a strong [7]
ftfy

>> No.45154728

>>45154669
>>45154671
I deleted my post, but if you want to troll my OP it's here: >>45154686

(I only posted here because I was an idiot using quick reply and forgot to make a new thread)

>> No.45154737

>>45154361

The 9th is regarded for the first three movements while it is famous for the 4th.

>> No.45154751
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45154751

g'night /mu/

>> No.45154773

>>45154751
phag

>> No.45154802

>>45154708
I guess you've been here too long to detect irony :D

>> No.45154814

>>45154802
see>>45154596
you weren't ironic but anyways let's move on this isn't on topic

>> No.45154820

>>45154751
Suck my black cock

>> No.45154924

>>45154538
>Hyacinthe Jadin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSchQGPgNic

This was good!

>> No.45154975

>>45154924
Calcium has surprisingly good taste, even if he only ever listens to Bach with the exception of like 5 other things.

>> No.45154996

>>45154975
what does calcium have to do with it

>> No.45155014

>>45154996
I found Jadin through his little chart.

>> No.45155027

>>45155014
oh yeah that chart is awful

>> No.45155181

>>45154253
Schnittke is just a slightly edgier Shostakovich.

>> No.45155228

>>45155181
You're right, Schnittke is the odd one out....

Replacement?
Someone modern...
Excluding Ligeti? (etudes...) Penderecki (tonal masses, etc)

>> No.45155985

>>45155228
Lets go with Gerard Grisey

>> No.45156571

>>45155228
Bernd Alois Zimmermann is clearly the patrician choice.

>> No.45156721

>>45156571
>Bernd Alois Zimmermann
that shit's twisted. He's in.

>> No.45156764

What is the EDM of classical?

>> No.45156789

>>45156764
Mendelssohn.

>> No.45156798

>>45156789
Nope

>> No.45156813

>>45156789
Agreed.
So many shitters like that not-innovative hack.

>> No.45156818

>>45156764
Depends what you mean by EDM.

>> No.45156832

>>45156818
Electronic Dance Music

>> No.45156844

>>45156764
Obviously its Rite of Spring

>> No.45156846

>>45156832
What are it's primary characteristics that warrant a comparison between it and a composer? You gotta be less vague, man.

>> No.45156883

>>45156818
Non-avantgarde electronic music.

>> No.45156898

>>45156846
Oh. I dunno, it was a stupid question. But I suppose, constant rhythmic patterns, something keeping the beat, not particularly melodically focussed.

>> No.45156914

>>45156883
Yes because anything even slightly experimental is avant-garde.

>> No.45156920

>>45156898
>constant rhythmic patterns, something keeping the beat, not particularly melodically focussed
Piere Schaeffer, Steve Reich.

>> No.45156983

>>45156883
ame pls.

>> No.45156989

>>45156844
Yeah good luck dancing to something with perpetually alternating time-signatures

>> No.45157008

>>45156989
As long as something has a rhythm it's dance music.

>> No.45157029

>>45156898
check out Reich's "Drumming"

>> No.45157047

>>45156920
>>45157029
Reich is degenerate

>> No.45157057

>>45157047
*regenerate

>> No.45157084

>>45157057
Deich is regenerate

>> No.45157364

>>45156989
>good luck dancing to something that was written for people to dance to

>> No.45157786

sup /class/

What are your feels on Liszt's extensive transcriptions to solo piano? Brilliance or blasphemy? The mark of a music-loving genius, or an uninspired, bored artist?

Also, any good recs appreciated. And I mean any...I've yet to hear a full beethoven symphony without some pretty inadequate playing. This goes for other composers, too. Mahler has a version of the 9th, I believe...but I'm not sure.

For the uninitiated, here's

>an original

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58idQ4Vyeoc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

>transcription

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYejArVzId8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

>> No.45157981

>>45157786
Brilliant from a PR point of view: the opera fantasies used familiar tunes as the basis for virtuosic fireworks, which was a sure-fire hit with audiences. I'm not so fond of the symphony transcriptions for the same reason you expressed. It's fascinating reading about Schoenberg and others working on 2-piano versions of Mahler's symphonies so that people could actually hear them.

Here's two Liszt transcriptions and one by Busoni
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsYJqrSAK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NRcAr0RvkQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5KWJC6rRVs

>> No.45158017

>>45157786
sometimes brilliance, not blasphemy, but also usually more an exercise to show off the pianist's skills. the concert transcription of wagner's tannhauser overture and schubert's der erlkonig are some of liszt's most taxing pieces for piano - the der erlkonig transcription is pretty much etude level but is actually a great transcription, and the tannhauser requires its performer to play at least 15 minutes of extended scales, double octave passages, and a ridiculous amount of leaps. of course, because all this is thrown at the performer its an immensely hard piece to just get a decent performance of. its a very literal transcription, yet doesnt really add a new grip to the piece unlike der erlkonig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKDYla5C5cA

many transcriptions in general dont really match up to the actual work but well, it's not written for that instrument(s) in the first place.

>> No.45158166

>>45157981
Don Juan is also ridiculously difficult to play well

to top it all off, theres one transcription of berlioz's symphonie fantastique, so about its 50 minutes long and filled with the usual copious amount of liszt boulders.

>> No.45158284

>>45158166
And then there's the 2-piano arrangement of the Dante Symphony. Liszt didn't exactly do things by halves.

>> No.45158410

>>45158284
liszt never really made things easy till he got old

>> No.45159003
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45159003

>>45156571
You've got some serious explaining to do, faggot

>> No.45159074

>>45159003
What am I supposed to explain?

>> No.45159128

>>45159074
explain why you like what he doesn't like

>> No.45159162

>>45159074
You rated a great album by Benjamin Britten, which I enjoy very much, 2/10. While you rated some awful music 10/10.

Is it a joke?

>> No.45159222

>>45147868
Yung Mozart - Unknown Nachtmusik 1756

:( minor boys :(

>> No.45159245

>>45159162
That isn't an album by Britten, it's an album of performances of works by Britten.

>>45159222
Kechel

>> No.45159278

>>45159245
>That isn't an album by Britten, it's an album of performances of works by Britten.
Wrong, it's an album by Britten performing his own works

Get your shit straight faggot

>> No.45159321
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45159321

Stockhausen has made some great fucking sample material, like seriously listen to his compositions. There are a bunch of really original sound patterns in there that you could make magic with.

Oh boy lemme get some of that, thank you based Stockhausen!

>> No.45159351

>>45159321
We know, it's a shitty meme.

>> No.45159476

>>45159278
All by himself? How did he find time to master all those instruments?

>> No.45159511

>>45159128
>>45159162

Okay, well, ramble ahead.

Back in Black is basically the apotheosis of "dadrock," obviously that is a good thing or a bad thing depending on who you are, but for me it took "dadrock" and filtered all the unnecessary elements, especially the pretentiousness of groups like Led Zeppelin and The Who are nowhere to be found, and the album delivers a straighforward and enduringly good experience. There is no other straight-up rock record with riffs that good and a sound that powerful, the lyrics are stupid but they fit the primitive sound very well. There is also sentimental value for me as it was the first album I ever bought with my own money, back when I was 12 — I had saved up all week to buy it and that was a big deal for me at the time.

Perfect Lives is one of the greatest narrative musical works of the 20th century. The slow, hypnotic music and Ashley's unique vocal delivery suit the bizarre humour of the text so well that I feel it absolutely could not be improved. I fell in love with it instantly when I first saw it in 2012, and have since bought the libretto, which is on par for me with Joyce and Pynchon in terms of that sort of "all encompassing human comedy" thing those guys do in their greatest works. Seriously, read the libretto, it's fantastic.

Unquestionable Presence is the most compositionally interesting metal album I've ever heard. The contrasting sections, the seemingly non sequitur transitions between them, the ridiculous bass writing etc. all are a cut above any other album in the genre that I'm aware of. The imperfections of the playing and Schaefer's bizarre vocal style complete the atmospheric quality, with a more stereotypical presentation it wouldn't have been as good.

I don't dislike Britten, I think the Sinfonia da Requiem and some of the concerti are fairly alright. That record must have pissed me off when I listened to it back in 2010, but I honestly couldn't tell you why as I barely remember it now.

>> No.45159568

>>45159476
Wow, you're autistic as fuck

>>45159511
Fine, but check yourself before you wreck yourself next time

>> No.45159637

>>45159568
I'm pretty sure in defending my love of plebcore like AC/DC I've already wrecked myself in the eyes of whoever's reading this thread so whatever.

>> No.45159738

>>45159637
I don't mind AC/DC, not bad definitely, but don't disrespect Britten like that

>>45159476
I guess an album by Bob Dylan isn't by him since he didn't play all of the instruments, just kill yourself

>> No.45159758

>>45159511
> There is also sentimental value for me as it was the first album I ever bought with my own money, back when I was 12
I know that feel baby.

Are you still serving Urgyne shots?

>> No.45159802

>>45159738
>disrespect Britten

But Britain hasn't produced a good composer since the end of the 17th century.

>> No.45159840

>>45159738
>I guess an album by Bob Dylan isn't by him since he didn't play all of the instruments, just kill yourself

Not exclusively, no.

>> No.45159884

>>45159840
So I guess an autistic person like you would say "Oh have you heard this album by Bob Dylan & Associates, it's called Blond on Blond. But I'll let you know he didn't play every instrument of course, there were other guys playing them. :)"

Just shut the fuck up and suck my cock already

>> No.45159936

>>45159758
I'm guessing you're asking for a link to Urgynes?

http://crudblud.sjm.so/CazazzaDan/CDA13_Urgynes_2014.zip

>>45159802
I don't think that's true anymore. I think Birtwistle at least makes very bold and interesting music that is identifiably English without being sentimental or anthemic.

>> No.45159965

>>45159884
>Just shut the fuck up and suck my cock already
Gladly.

>>45159936
>identifiably English
How?

>> No.45159983

>>45159936
Only time will tell, not that the continentals are doing any better either. The focus for art musit in the past century or so seems to have shifted decisively towards the new world and away from its traditional centres.

>> No.45160058

>>45159983
Art music is thriving in Austria, Germany, France, Scandinavia... basically, places with a long tradition of government support for the arts.

>> No.45160112

>>45160058
you forgot russia then.

>> No.45160242

>>45159965
Well, in the sense that he draws heavily on English culture. Obviously "England" is not stamped all over his instrumental music because it is necessarily abstract, the only reason we recognise the most popular works of Elgar and Holst as being staples of "Englishness" in music is that they have much greater popular appeal with their easy tunes and so on. A notable exception to that, in terms of Birtwistle's instrumental music, is the Grimethorpe Aria, which takes the staple of English working class music, the colliery band, and uses it to produce a decidedly modern sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YM-XCk9nQ0

The opera Punch & Judy is a more obvious example, taking the beloved traditional attraction, drawing especially on its recurring theme of spousal abuse and turning it into a nightmarish black comedy. Unfortunately there isn't a complete production available on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGwOXGwspXc

>> No.45160804

>>45154820
>>45154253
>>45153601
Please, please stop

>> No.45160856

>>45157047

Shut the fuck up, you imbecile.

>> No.45161592

>>45160856
CLT pls

>> No.45161599

>>45152712
"Through uninterrupted diligence you will receive Mozart's spirit through Haydn's hands."

>> No.45162014

>>45153601
>>45154253
>>45154820
pls leave

>> No.45162134

>>45161599
^I came to post this

>> No.45162255

>>45162134
Logged in to upvote this

>> No.45162275

>>45162134
>>45162255
I came to fuck bitches

>> No.45162317

Do we have any infograph for beginners?

>> No.45162424

>>45162317
Use ame's chart or CLT'S if you like his taste

>> No.45162466

>>45162424
Can you upload the infograph for me?

>> No.45162545

>>45162317
please don't use either of these >>45162424 unless you want to become a meme-spouting reactionary CLT-disciple

>> No.45162562

>>45162545
Or do so and find some music you like, some you don't, and use this to find your own taste.

>> No.45162570
File: 2.14 MB, 1050x2270, 1394587476837.png [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45162570

>>45162317
I'll fix this soon. If you need the Bruckner link (the one that got cut off) I'll post an older edition.

>> No.45162699

>>45162545
Ame's essentials chart is pretty unbiased though

>> No.45163778
File: 1.27 MB, 1906x4107, musampler.jpg [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45163778

>>45162699

>> No.45163800

You have 10 seconds to show me a piece of bad classical music.

>> No.45163850

>>45163800
1812 overture

>> No.45163864

>>45163800
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQlPqcJpx74

>> No.45163895

Official Beethoven Symphony Tiers:
9>5>3>7=6>4>8=1>2

>> No.45163967

>>45163895
spot on, although the top 3 are kind of interchangeable since they're all so high quality. i might put 3>9>5 personally

>> No.45164087

>>45163895
9 is very inconsistent, personally i think the second and especially the fourth movement don't live up to the first and the slow movement.
rating 8 this low suggests you've never heard a proper performance of it: there's very few that do it full justice, i recommend you listen to scherchen's recordings of it (both the royal philharmonic and lugano one, they have different strengths).

on the whole 3 is both the most original and most consistent, and, imo, the first and most successful incarnation of beethoven's idiosyncratic variation-fugue hybrid finale (other instances would be symphony no 9, the hammerklavier sonata and the große fugue/original finale of the late bf-flat quartet.

>> No.45164104

>tripfags everywhere
>everyone circlejerking over what's 'avant-garde' and 'neo'
>mainly calling each other faggots and telling them their taste is shit then posting autistical paragraphs about why they're right
goddamnit /mu/ I didn't ask for this

>> No.45164125

>>45163800
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-9FheoWCng

>> No.45164159

>>45164087
I've only heard 8 a couple times and having it low on the list doesn't mean it's bad by any means, just not as good as the others. It just doesn't seem very impacting to me as the other ones. Kind of a shift away to the earlier style.

>> No.45164210

>>45164087
>3 is the most consistent
Gonna play devil's advocate here:
>starts off with music of a hero
>then suddenly we're at a funeral
>now everyone is bouncing up and down
>now we're back to the hero. Music of a revolution, exuberant finale
How is that consistent?

>> No.45164284

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFA_tT8_v-Q&t=62m50s
>dat oomph
Are there any other recordings where the horns have that much power?

>> No.45164354 [DELETED] 

due to a disturbing surge in anti-schoenberg sentiment i have decided to trip once more.

>>45164159
in many ways its style is closer to beethoven's late style than the symphonies you list at the very top, its extreme brevity and idiosyncratic appropriation of a more "classical" idiom are typical signifiers of the late style - as is the extreme motivic fragmentation and merciless, pounding repetition that characterizes the development sections of the outer movements. it takes an adequately daring conductor to bring out the symphonies' radicality, and scherchen is a perfect match for it.

in sum, the reason 8 is less popular than the symphonies that surround it is the same reason why beethoven's late style in general is less popular than the so-called "heroic" works.

>>45164210
i meant in terms of quality, not affect. a complimentary character of the individual movements corresponds perfectly with the demands of the classical style; a hypothetical programmatic reading of it could easily reconcile these contrasts into a coherent narrative (as has been done before). besides, the overtly episodic, even rhapsodic character of the ninth's finale should be no less troubling for you - there's that banal march next to learned double fugues, for example.

>> No.45164396

due to a disturbing surge in anti-schoenberg sentiment i have decided to trip once more.

>>45164159
in many ways its style is closer to beethoven's late style than the symphonies you list at the very top, its extreme brevity and idiosyncratic appropriation of a more "classical" idiom are typical signifiers of the late style - as is the extreme motivic fragmentation and merciless, pounding repetition that characterizes the development sections of the outer movements. it takes an adequately daring conductor to bring out the symphonies' radicality, and scherchen is a perfect match for it.

in sum, the reason 8 is less popular than the symphonies that surround it is the same reason why beethoven's late style in general is less popular than the so-called "heroic" works.

>>45164210
i meant in terms of quality, not affect. a complimentary character of the individual movements corresponds perfectly with the demands of the classical style; a hypothetical programmatic reading of it could easily reconcile these contrasts into a coherent narrative (as has been done before). besides, the overtly episodic, even rhapsodic character of the ninth's finale should be no less troubling for you - there's that banal march next to learned double fugues, for example.

>> No.45164571

>>45164125
why is it bad?

>> No.45164594
File: 23 KB, 436x432, 1394854362211.jpg [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45164594

>>45164125

>> No.45164711

Who are some good performers of Beethoven's Piano Sonatas? I already have a set by Brendel.

>> No.45165138

>>45164711
if you want a complete set, i recommend pearl's transfer of artur schnabel's recordings. it is, in my opinion, far superior to brendel's - the tempi are more extreme, yet also far more flexible.

if you want selections, i recommend the late piano sonatas by charles rosen, everything by maria yudina, edwin fischer (especially the early recordings) and bruce hungerford.

>> No.45165186

>>45165138
thank you kindly

>> No.45165226

>>45165138
I liked Brendel on Mozart's Piano Concerto's but on these sonatas it just felt flat.

Thank you for this.

>> No.45165293

>>45165186
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/7363d7ky0co3u/Schnabel_plays_Beethoven_Vol._I_-_V

>>45165226
i think brendel's mozart is extremely boring and stiff; and the orchestral accompaniment by marriner isn't just frequently inexact, it also lacks the chamber-like interplay demanded by mozart's mature orchestral writing - the overall gesture is far too "symphonic" for my tastes.

i suggest you check out staier and edwin fischer's historical recordings, for starters on how mozart can sound when in the hands of more imaginative musicians: http://www.mediafire.com/folder/9zgm9l85g0uz8/Piano_Works_(Staier)

i could upload fischer's stuff.

>> No.45165323

>>45165293
I would like that very much, thank you.

>> No.45165326

>>45159321
His talent didn't lie in his sampling you weeaboo.

>> No.45165378

>>45165326
>Stockhausen
>talent
That's contradictory.

>> No.45165485

>>45165323
give me ten minutes or so.

i'd very much like to hear your opinion on them, and i sincerely hope you're not deterred by the mono sound - in my experience everything of interest is audible in these recordings, but i also do prefer to listen to historical recordings on speakers as opposed to headphones. if you want to ease yourself into this soundworld, i recommend starting with concerti nos. 22 and 25 - they come in the best sound, and are absolute gems.

>> No.45165551

>>45165485
I'm more than willing to give it a listen, and I'll be interested to hear a new take on mozart's concerti. The Brendel versions are the only ones I've ever heard.

>> No.45165666

Is there a pastebin guide to making an rutracker account?

>> No.45165706

>>45165666
google chrome just translated everything for me

>> No.45165871
File: 11 KB, 300x300, 41olzoUl0AL._SY300_.jpg [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45165871

>>45165551
edwin fischer - mozart piano concertos. the complete studio recordings
https://mega.co.nz/#!uYFSQDxK!vY9QsCZpRCN5Fu6e6TF2QMtzX5zDVK0MsBYBkGngxdw

brendel was a pupil of fischer and admires him above all other pianists, but in my opinion his playing doesn't approach the (seeming) total freedom and spontaneity of fischer's. incidentally, my teacher's teacher was also taught by fischer, and he happens to be our ideal as well. which is part of the reason i'm so eager to spread his recordings, and to hear other's opinion on him.

>> No.45165945

>>45160112
Nothing is thriving in Russia except the scourge of Krokodil

>> No.45165958

i'll also upload some of fischer's beethoven for good measure.

>> No.45166010
File: 575 KB, 1920x1080, Guillaume-Dufay.jpg [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45166010

Hack.

>> No.45166040

>>45159321
>muh timbres

>> No.45166095

>>45165958
>>45165871
I didn't know that. I really wish I had picked up piano at some point in my life, I'm trying to learn now but jesus it's hard.

>> No.45166119

>>45163864
What's wrong with this?

>> No.45166208
File: 44 KB, 450x450, Fischer-K02[Pearl].jpg [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45166208

>>45166095
i started at 19, and due to my bipolar illness those four years were ridden with many practice-less months - i've been working on some bits of the well-tempered clavier for the last few months, which reminds me i could post fischer's recording of the well-tempered clavier, the first complete traversal ever, in the best available restoration:

https://mega.co.nz/#!LV8zWQYI!8QezxsbTe1RwhCXSoTqcJiD1SkkwyXD1Nl0XzgZ2eUQ
https://mega.co.nz/#!fcUzxSYK!BnuqhhovO_d9cdtwCatc0MyJlQ0_o96BaN5yUOQqNlU

>> No.45166226

>>45164087

The 9th is inconsistent? Though I wouldn't say it's as perfectly put together as the 5th, there is hardly a drop in quality (unless you want to consider the 3rd movement lull "inconsistent"; but I wouldn't). The 2nd movement is infamous, so that tends to be the source of why people don't like it; but not appreciating the 4th movement is beyond me, even if it isn't your "thing".
>>45163895

Listen to the 8th more. My first pass through the Symphonies had me with the 8th in a similar position; but after listening to it more it's always among my top 3. Sandwiched between two of Beethoven's greatest Symphonies is intimidating; but even his "little" Symphony shines through.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KGtUkW3dBM

>> No.45166283

>>45166208
Huh, well I'm 19 so I guess now is the time to really get started.

I don't have any teachers available though, were you self taught at the beginning or did you always have a teacher?

>> No.45166382
File: 31 KB, 390x400, MI0001030709.jpg [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45166382

here you go, dead thread <3

https://mega.co.nz/#!KY1gVRhS!nEAgTwwMjF0fwXBiWxArZxjGoa0cpQxqQ9mUqikPRNQ

>>45166226
>Though I wouldn't say it's as perfectly put together as the 5th
i also think the fifth is a bit banal and monomaniac, especially the final movement, in particular how beethoven attempts to tie it together with the first movement: subtler variants of this procedure abound both in the ouevres of haydn and mozart, as well as his own.

disdain for the final movement of the ninth is very common: it was the one thing wagner and verdi could agree on, for example. i think it is a huge drop in quality, and perhaps the least successful incarnation of beethoven variation-fugue finale type - the tune itself is akin to a nursery rhyme, and its nativity hardly can sustain the almost violent transformations it is put through. the introduction to it is similarly unsubtle, and a reiteration of the hammerklavier's - the earlier movements are recalled and cut off by the first notes of the nursery rhyme melody.

>> No.45166437

>>45166283
>I don't have any teachers available though, were you self taught at the beginning or did you always have a teacher?
i had a teacher from the start, and i recommend starting with a teacher: you need someone to watch and correct your touch, else you won't develop the sensibility and control that makes even the simplest ditties sound graceful - which is a huge motivation booster. i'm no virtuoso by any means, but what i can play i don't merely pound out.

a teacher is most important in the first year or two i'd say, and even after that you'll need frequent feedback to improve and overcome your bad habits.

>> No.45166497

>>45166437
I suppose I'll have to wait until I move to Seattle then, thank you for all these shares, I can't wait to dig into them after work tonight.

>> No.45166531

>>45166437
Shouldn't you at least get to point where you can play scales on your own? Gracefully or otherwise...

>> No.45166624

>>45166531
playing scales is very different from playing actual music, and even then you should have someone to watch over your technique - bad habits picked up early are almost impossible to get rid of, and can mar your playing for years to come. it's a risk i wouldn't take.

>> No.45166720

where do I start with schubert /classical/?

>> No.45166843

>>45166624
The thing is I have really poor coordination, I can't even wank around with two against three patterns, as soon as I move my left hand my fingers start all playing in unison. Any teacher would probably be appalled and think (reasonably) that I am wasting my money.

>> No.45166863

>>45166720
you don,t

its gay

>> No.45166962

>>45166720
instrumental:
string quintet in c major, d. 956 (hagen quartett or hollywood string quartet)
string quartet in g major, d. 887 (hagen quartett or busch quartet)

vocal:
winterreise, d. 911 (gerhard hüsch, josef greindl or dietrich fischer dieskau [early])

>> No.45167203

>>45166382

>the tune itself is akin to a nursery rhyme

This is based off of a misconception, and perhaps a lack of understanding as to Beethoven's intent with that simple melody.

""Oh friends, not these tones! Rather let's strike up something more agreeable and joyful."Soon the chorus is crying, "Joy! Joy!" and the piece is off, praising joy as the universal solvent, under whose influence love will flourish, humanity unite. Schiller's ode is a stylized drinking song, meant literally or figuratively to be declaimed by comrades with glasses raised." (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/music_box/2003/06/the_beethoven_mystery.html)

Shaping the entire 9th around the Ode to Joy, it's intents were to be simple in the first place. It's a melody meant to be sung as a drinking song, the coming together of all people. With such a simple tune, it's easy for anyone to sing. And I feel, that was the intent. So, whenever there are complaints on the simplicity of the Ode to Joy melody, I tend to dismiss them because that was exactly the point.

And the rest that you have said is in many ways what makes the work so fascinating to this day. The violent transformations as the final movement calls upon each previous movement's theme, passing through them until settling on the Ode to Joy was unprecedented.

>> No.45167263

>>45162317
I have this Pastebin of core pieces, with youtube links.

http://pastebin.com/HC8VeqZ2

a Bit of everything in there

>> No.45167467

>>45167203
>The violent transformations as the final movement calls upon each previous movement's theme, passing through them until settling on the Ode to Joy was unprecedented.
not really. consider the hammerklavier sonata.

my complaint wasn't that the theme is simple per se (read my post again, carefully), but rather that its simplicity clashes with the variations it is subjected to - it is not a theme that invites development, not one that can be fragmented (due to its periodic, song-like gesture), it retains its character throughout the movement - a static element, which i find alien and tiresome at once. it is not one of beethoven's more creative variation cycles, either: the major ones for piano take much greater liberties with the material they vary, and thus come off as more dynamic.

>> No.45167555

Pleb question. Is there a reason (besides major/minor distinction) that other than for practical playing reasons a piece of music would be in a specific key? As I understand it a piece music sounds more or less the same if all the notes are translated the same number of steps upward or downward. But do specific keys actually have their own character based on how instruments are tuned or just in general?

>> No.45167646

>>45167555
>But do specific keys actually have their own character based on how instruments are tuned or just in general?
in twelve-tone equal temperament (i.e. where the octave is divided into twelve equal steps) the unique sound of keys is mostly related to how the instruments are tuned, f.ex. what open strings there are on a violin - this is the reason why D or A are such popular keys for violin concerti.

aside from that keys also acquire a "symbolic" character of sorts through their use: consider the meaning c minor acquired through beethoven's works.

in non-equal temperaments all keys have their specific interval ratios, and none will sound like any other.

>> No.45167683

People who dislike Ode to Joy are literally pretentious faggots. There is no way a human being could dislike that, dumb or smart.

>> No.45167705

>>45167683
[2]

>> No.45167799

>>45166382
>the fifth is banal and monomaniac
nigger
>disliking the final movement of the 9th
face it, there's a reason the 9th is universally recognized as the greatest piece of music ever written and all your attempts to be 'hip' and 'avant-garde' can't change that.

>> No.45167813

>>45167555
Specific keys do have their own character.

Its mostly to do with the open strings on the string instruments. Violins, Violas and Celli/Basses all have G C and D Strings, so anything played in these keys usually sounds pretty stable.
The further you get away from the 'normal' keys, the most the string players need to use stops, and the more unstable the pitch becomes (with pro players this becomes much less of an issue) So B-flat minor sounds very minor and dark, as the strings are all playing stopped notes, usually far from their open strings.

Of course its not just all about the strings, all instruments have different characters in certain registers. Clarinets and Oboes are usually based in B-flat, so they have no problem playing in those keys, but ask them to play F# major or something and they start getting angsty, with 6 sharps in their parts...

Each instrument sounds different in certain registers, so some keys might emphasize certain colors, and others might neglect them, Giving each key a distinct (ish) character

>> No.45167815

>>45167467

>not really. consider the hammerklavier sonata

I was speaking on what Beethoven was doing as a whole. Should have specified.

And I know exactly what you're saying regarding the Ode to Joy theme; but that's why I find it to be as enjoyable as I do: the variations performed by the orchestra are one of the highlights of the piece, and even then it doesn't entirely clash with the Ode to Joy theme. The piece is unusual, as there is hardly anything conventional in Beethoven.

>> No.45167855

>>45167683
you could also dislike it for the naivety of its message, or the musical hints that war ought to be declared to the enemies of universal brotherhood (the turkish march is, essentially, military music, and a call to arms). as valid as disliking it for purely musical reasons.

>>45167799
>there's a reason the 9th is universally recognized as the greatest piece of music ever written
[citation needed]

let this be clear, i adore beethoven: but that doesn't mean i have to adore the ninth.

>>45167815
>The piece is unusual, as there is hardly anything conventional in Beethoven.
that's a gross overstatement.

>> No.45167900

What's the difference between C Minor, E-flat major, and other relative keys?

>> No.45167931

>>45167855
>doesn't get the ninth

He is not declaring war on war but accepting war, or transcending war.

I break the ninth up as follows:

First and second movements: the "war" movements

Third movement: the contemplative movement

Fourth movement: the affirmative movement. Amor Fati.

I think from this simple grounding you can easily apply any interpretation while adhering to this general process of emotion. The self at war, the self wrestling with truth, the self affirming life. Ideology at war, ideology questioning itself, ideology accepting itself. Ideology at war with other ideology, ideology questioning epistemological foundation, transcendence of ideology.

I think the most common interpretation would be: mankind at war, mankind questioning its place in the universe, and then the unification of mankind, "Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt."


You can look up a translation of Schiller's poem if your German isn't too good. But I don't think that does complete justice to "getting" the ninth without the context of the other 3 movements preceding. Ode to Joy would just be cheesy if it wasn't for the preparation

>> No.45167952

>>45167855
>naivety of its message
>how could these naive fools be so stupid
>why can't they be smart like moi
>le war, war never changes

>The Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125 (sometimes known simply as "the Choral"), is the final complete symphony of Ludwig van Beethoven (1770–1827). Completed in 1824, the symphony is one of the best-known works of the repertoire of classical music.[1] Among critics, it is almost universally considered to be among Beethoven's greatest works, and is considered by some to be the greatest piece of music ever written.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_(Beethoven)

>> No.45167989

>>45167900
>These are from 1806, things may have changed since then...

C Major
Completely Pure. Its character is: innocence, simplicity, naivety, children's talk.

C Minor
Declaration of love and at the same time the lament of unhappy love. All languishing, longing, sighing of the love-sick soul lies in this key.

Db Major
A leering key, degenerating into grief and rapture. It cannot laugh, but it can smile; it cannot howl, but it can at least grimace its crying.--Consequently only unusual characters and feelings can be brought out in this key.

C# Minor
Penitential lamentation, intimate conversation with God, the friend and help-meet of life; sighs of disappointed friendship and love lie in its radius.

D Major
The key of triumph, of Hallelujahs, of war-cries, of victory-rejoicing. Thus, the inviting symphonies, the marches, holiday songs and heaven-rejoicing choruses are set in this key.

D Minor
Melancholy womanliness, the spleen and humours brood.

Eb Major
The key of love, of devotion, of intimate conversation with God.

D# Minor
Feelings of the anxiety of the soul's deepest distress, of brooding despair, of blackest depression, of the most gloomy condition of the soul. Every fear, every hesitation of the shuddering heart, breathes out of horrible D# minor. If ghosts could speak, their speech would approximate this key.

E Major
Noisy shouts of joy, laughing pleasure and not yet complete, full delight lies in E Major.

E minor
Naive, womanly innocent declaration of love, lament without grumbling; sighs accompanied by few tears; this key speaks of the imminent hope of resolving in the pure happiness of C major.
F Major
Complaisance & Calm.

F Minor
Deep depression, funereal lament, groans of misery and longing for the grave.

F# Major
Triumph over difficulty, free sigh of relief uttered when hurdles are surmounted; echo of a soul which has fiercely struggled and finally conquered lies in all uses of this key.

>> No.45168025

>>45167989
>ctnd... This shit is hilarious

F# Minor
A gloomy key: it tugs at passion as a dog biting a dress. Resentment and discontent are its language.

G Major
Everything rustic, idyllic and lyrical, every calm and satisfied passion, every tender gratitude for true friendship and faithful love,--in a word every gentle and peaceful emotion of the heart is correctly expressed by this key.

G Minor
Discontent, uneasiness, worry about a failed scheme; bad-tempered gnashing of teeth; in a word: resentment and dislike.

Ab Major
Key of the grave. Death, grave, putrefaction, judgment, eternity lie in its radius.

Ab Minor
Grumbler, heart squeezed until it suffocates; wailing lament, difficult struggle; in a word, the color of this key is everything struggling with difficulty.

A Major
This key includes declarations of innocent love, satisfaction with one's state of affairs; hope of seeing one's beloved again when parting; youthful cheerfulness and trust in God.
A minor
Pious womanliness and tenderness of character.

Bb Major
Cheerful love, clear conscience, hope aspiration for a better world.

Bb minor
A quaint creature, often dressed in the garment of night. It is somewhat surly and very seldom takes on a pleasant countenance. Mocking God and the world; discontented with itself and with everything; preparation for suicide sounds in this key.

B Major
Strongly colored, announcing wild passions, composed from the most glaring colors. Anger, rage, jealousy, fury, despair and every burden of the heart lies in its sphere.
B Minor
This is as it were the key of patience, of calm awaiting ones's fate and of submission to divine dispensation.

>> No.45168058

>>45167989
>muh narratives

>> No.45168066

>>45167952
if you don't think its message is rather naive you seem to have missed the 20th century, and should read the dialectic of the enlightenment.

>>45167931
good job at ignoring my argument, which does not conflict with a reading that considers the final movement an affirmation of universal brotherhood - which declaring war on its enemies.

it's also rather sexist, but that's a given for the time.

>> No.45168097

>>45167989
I didn't mean the mood, I meant what is the actual difference between them. They both have 3 flats, so what's the difference between a work written in C Minor and E-flat Major?

>> No.45168109

>>45168025
Bb minor confirmed for emo teenager

>> No.45168123

>>45168066
I didn't ignore it. It does not deny war, it accepts war as the driving force to achieve happiness.

>sexist
Oh I get it, you're a troll. Never mind.

>> No.45168136

tripfag circlejerk general

>> No.45168147

>>45168066
Totally agree /b/ro, too bad all these unenlightened LE PLEBS don't get us xDDD WAR MASTER RACE!! LOL! xDD This is going up on my reddit page xDDD

>> No.45168157

>>45168097
Both keys use the same notes, but a piece in C minor with tend to resolve to C minor chords, and use C in the bass.
Likewise a piece in Eb Maj tends to resolve to Eb Maj chords, and use a lot of Eb notes in the bass

>> No.45168175

>>45168123
>Oh I get it, you're a troll. Never mind.
you cannot deny that the schiller poem is sexist.

>> No.45168178

>>45168066
>it's also rather sexist
Tumblr pls.

>> No.45168234

>>45168178
hey, it's a valid reason to dislike it. not mine, but still - you cannot deny this fact. it consistently un-mentions women in its appeals and degrades them to something to be "achieved", for the men it is directed at.

>> No.45168239

>>45167855

It's actually not. He was continuously called "unconventional" by his contemporaries, whether it was his personality or the writing of his music. His piano music was unconventional (the style of playing that had broken from performance suited for Harpsichord), his late string quartets (the 7 linked movements of String Quartet No.14), and the motivic developments in his Symphonies were certainly all unusual for his time. Though the Classical mold is always there, it was his use of form that makes the music stand out.

>> No.45168276

>>45168175
>getting a wife is sexist

>> No.45168280

>>45168234
>he doesn't know the difference between man and Man

>> No.45168321

>>45168234
"Man" in the universal, dumbshit

the wife line doesn't mean that. He says, for anyone who has had a friend or a lover, join us. But those who are anti-human, leave.

>> No.45168327

>>45168234
>the romantic ideal of Blaue Blumen transposed to a conceptualized Woman put forth as an unreachable absolute is sexist
Please kill self

>> No.45168361

>>45168234

It's not valid because you're not understanding its historical context.

>> No.45168378
File: 543 B, 109x24, biotroll'd.png [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45168378

>>45168234

>> No.45168426

>>45168234
this kind of shit makes me want to go beat my girlfriend and be a fucking misogynist

Jane Fonda makes me want to buy KKK posters

>> No.45168453

>>45168234
Best new trip

>> No.45168487

>>45168426
You're too cute for girls. You need a good dicking, boy.

also

>people not recognising SDF's tripcode

>> No.45168502

>>45168234
it's not saying women are just something to be "achieved"
it's saying that "achieving" to be with a lovely woman is something to celebrate

>> No.45168617

>>45168239
"hardly anything conventional" implies that his style wasn't essentially inherited from mozart and haydn, especially as far as formal norms - which he stuck to to the very end of his life, as his contemporaries abandoned them - are concerned. i said it was an overstatement, not completely wrong.

>>45168276
>>45168280
>>45168321
exclusively addressing "brothers" while only mentioning women as something to be "achieved" is sexist. period. i take it none of you speak german.

>>45168327
it is.

>>45168502
women are only mentioned as an ancillary to men. that's sexist, but sadly the norm for the time.

>> No.45168758

Can someone explain to me what Stockhausen is all about? It genuinely bugs my mind how something like him can be considered classical music.

>> No.45168854

>>45168758
Serialism.

>> No.45168915

>>45168758
His works, composed over a period of nearly sixty years, eschew traditional forms. In addition to electronic music—both with and without live performers—they range from miniatures for musical boxes through works for solo instruments, songs, chamber music, choral and orchestral music, to a cycle of seven full-length operas. His theoretical and other writings comprise ten large volumes. He received numerous prizes and distinctions for his compositions, recordings, and for the scores produced by his publishing company

Key phrase: "eschew traditional forms"
While he's not someone I listen to ever, he did break out of the box, like many other composers in his period, they had to do crazy shit and try new things.

It's not really classical music... more experimentation and pushing the boundaries of what is and isn't "music"

>> No.45168959

>>45168453
>new trip
nope.

>> No.45169057
File: 71 KB, 500x689, 1330064756888.jpg [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45169057

>>45168487
/classical/. /classical/ never changes.

>> No.45169163

>>45168959
>>45169057
<3

>> No.45169178

>>45168617
cease breath

>> No.45169228

>>45168959
but thats lnyd in its serialist form

>> No.45169454

>>45168758
For most of his life he was trying to develop a 'cosmic music'

>STOCKHAUSEN: All the spiritual artists - but also all the great scientists and philosophers who knew that human thinking and human production and human creation is an extraordinarily small mirror of what we can study in nature and in the universe or in the micro-world. I have only modestly tried to translate the greater principles and laws of the world, of what we can discover and study, and in this sense I know that my composition is an extraordinarily small model of what I can see daily in astronomy or genetics or biology, physics and chemistry. The last thirty or forty years are so packed with new discoveries in the micro-world and the macro-world that our artistic production is really very small. One has to be very humble, really.

>SECONDS: You once said music in the post-war period was not an expression of human feeling, but a re-creation of cosmic order. There was an orientation away from mankind.

>STOCKHAUSEN: Well, it is true. When I discover something that is mysterious for me, new for me, and when I very carefully try to formulate it in sound, then it is certainly not the human side of myself which is touched. It is very strange to me. And I feel there is something that I don't know; I don't even know how to formulate it and to translate it into the instrumental world, whether in the electronic studio or with traditional instruments is secondary. The music which is composed by me and rehearsed many times and perfected in a lot of rehearsals very slowly creates feelings that I haven't had before. But it is not the expression of my feelings. So then I have new feelings. New music creates new feelings. It gives us completely different experiences that we haven't had before. That's why it is so important - it expands us.

>> No.45169512

>>45169454
9/11 is the greatest work of art - k. stockhausen

>> No.45169684
File: 22 KB, 270x420, Gyorgy Ligeti 123.jpg [Show reposts] Image reverse search: [iqdb] [google]
45169684

Do you guys like Ligeti?

>> No.45169752

>>45169684
yes. Piano Etudes are extremely beautiful.

>> No.45169792

>>45169752
I downloaded the on from Thomas Hell, but are there any more collections that are complete?

>> No.45169802

>>45169684
yes, a lot. i adore his hamburg concerto.

>> No.45169811

>>45169512
Yeah, that was pretty stupid to say, but he was hardly unique in making ill-considered statements in the immediate aftermath of the attacks.

>> No.45169861

>>45169811
I think that statement was awesome

If you view it all cosmically, like him, and you see the torment, anxiety, horror, all explode in a few hours out of nothing. That's art.

>> No.45169869

>>45169684
I love Metamorphoses Nocturnes, the Chamber Concerto, Síppal, dobbal, nádihegedüvel, Hamburg Concerto, Grand Macabre and Hungarian Rock.

>> No.45169884

>>45169861
Celebes confirmed mudslime.

>> No.45169885

>>45169684
easily my favourite "modern" composer.
I remember watching the Kammerkonzert played by an ensemble of which my oboe teacher was part and it totally blew my mind.
The requiem is also awesome.

>> No.45169924

>>45169811
>implying 9/11 wasn't a great work of art.

you should see the score...
Bin Laden is the ultimate freedom composer

>Requiem for passenger planes and world trade center

>> No.45169933

>>45169454
>>45169512
Was Stockhausen autistic? As in legitimately autistic, not the buzzword sense.

>> No.45169974

>>45169933
Autistic people are usually retarded. Stocky probably had an extreme IQ

>> No.45170020

>>45169861
It makes sense from a transcendental German Romantic point of view, but Anglos have never been comfortable with the idea of art as annihilation.

>>45169933
I don't think so, and I don't think we have anything to go on besides speculation.

>> No.45170030

>>45169974
>Autistic people are usually retarded
Hence my question.

>> No.45170044

>>45169933

no thats just how people from sirius are

>> No.45170096

>>45170030
Well, if you did a little research, you'd see he's extremely intelligent.
Sure, he didn't write music in the conventional sense, and much of it is unlistenable, but he had some crazy cool ideas.

>> No.45170107

>>45170020
It makes sense from any aesthetic point of view where art is an inherent feature of nature and not strictly human.

Of course Anglos are uncomfortable with it. Anglos probably have the worst taste in Europe. Everything about them is awkward, forced, self-conscious, "efficient." Their approach to art would be the same way.

>> No.45170108

>>45169933
No. He was probably schizophrenic though.

>> No.45170160

New thread.
>>45170152

>> No.45170309

>>45163967
this

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